Lister(oid) Concrete Base

[veggie]

The only reason for a big slab of concrete is if you'd like to raise the engine for ease of service.  Or you have failed to understand 38ac's simple method.  It's brilliant.

I tried to find the 38ac method for balancing but all the text seems to have been erased 

[veggie]

Another item to muddy these discussions is that some engines have cast iron pistons and some have aluminum pistons. Throwing a cast iron piston up and down 10 times per second is a lot of reversing force to tame compared to an aluminum version at 1/2 the weight. This may be why some users have bigger issues than others.

[Hugh Conway]

Good morning Veggie
PM'd you.

Cheers
Hugh

[Robert forrester]

Years ago I set up a 16/1, my cement pad was 6x8x2 feet thick.  I used 5/8 j hooks x14 inches long  in the cement.  I discovered I was shaking my neighborhood when running.  I added 1 inch thick rubber horse mat under my engine/generator frame.  It helped but still thumped,  running 1 time it started making a different noise.  I found that it broke 3 of the 5/8 j hooks.  I ended up calling a special vibration isolation company, after a bunch  of questions including the engine speed. They set me up with special mounts  that corrected all vibration problems.   The only thing is the total frame/ engin assembly needs to be able to move 1 inch in any direction. So keeping things flexible was key.

[veggie]

R Forrester,

Very interesting, and useful info.
Thanks for posting that.

[veggie]

Here is what I am currently planning.
Hardwood beams resting on a 1" rubber mat.
The system will not be anchored to the concrete but will be held in location by steel "bumpers" (red) which will be bolted to the concrete floor. The rubber mat seems have the correct natural frequency for this type of weight and vibration.
All experimental at this point so I accept that this may not work.

<click image to enlarge>

[xyzer]

No concrete. Could use a slab to keep it in place. If mounted permanently to a slab everyone would feel it!


https://youtu.be/_QmWXNo-Gmg?si=i0KVjKvQmBzIeACz

[BruceM]

A masterpiece portable CS work machine, Dave. Good to see it again.

[38ac]

A lot of the ground pounding issues with these engines is the horrible job of balancing that India preforms and when tied down on a piece of concrete the issues noted appear. Secondary issue is just how sensitive people are to it. At this moment there is a 1115 sitting on a yard of concrete and running  about100 feet from my chair and the only way anyone knows it is powering the house is the slight flicker from the big single cylinder diesel. A CS Lister or a properly balanced 'roid does not pound the earth when setting on a
 block of concrete and it will set reasonably still when sitting on nothing more than couple 4x6s sitting on the ground. I'm not a fan of letting an out of balance engine rattle around on a set of vibration dampeners because parts and pieces then vibrate loose.  One of my shop customers has a CS 6/1 running behind the house to pump water and it's set a little  under 600 RPM, exhaust runs into a pit silencer and is exhaust maybe 20 feet in the air. Aside of hearing the slight pop pop from the pipe there is no evidence of an engine running, no ground pounding whatsoever. So,, there is obviously more than one way to skin this cat but statements that point to they will all pound the ground if set on a concrete base are not quite factual. 

[BruceM]

+1.  38ac's method of centering the counterweight opposite the key for each wheel, then matching them by adding the measured weight difference to the lighter flywheel counter weight makes the subsequent balancing process very fast and easy compared to the wheel chaulking method (which requires a soft mount).  You just add (or subtract) equal counterweight to each wheel and watch until you start to see a little fore and aft movement cylinder head movement instead of up and down.

I made a simple setup for wheel counterweight measurement and matching with wood stands and leveled with shims metal angle rail on top.  I used a 12" length of 2" shaft to hang the wheel between the stands, others have used 2" bearings with a smaller shaft successfully. 

My "temporary" softwood base is still in service, no durability issues after balancing.  You only need some means of keeping it from walking away. Rubber pads will not solve a balance problem, I learned.

I did find a picture of my crude flywheel balance stand with 30ac's string and can method for measuring the counterweight. This lets you readily find and measure the counterweight after correcting them with added weight so that they are exactly opposite the key slot.  38ac had a classy all steel setup, using bearings, I think. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce

[vdubnut62]

 I haven't tackled the 'roid. Yet. But for what it's worth, I have the 1115 and 12kw ST head on a steel frame on 1 inch rubber on a 4' 1/2 by 2' by2' red oak block (roughly 750lbs I think) on another 1 inch rubber mat on a 4 inch thick concrete floor 12' by 16'.  And still the whole building vibrates and hums. But it is almost unnoticeable  in the house.
 Anyway the Wife is happy when the power goes out, I figure that's a win and I'll take it.
  Ron.