Author Topic: 16-2 Fuel Pumps  (Read 988 times)

listerclone

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16-2 Fuel Pumps
« on: April 11, 2024, 03:53:16 AM »
Hi, I am having trouble getting the fuel pumps to work on this 16-2 Listeroid.  They are both installed and the fuel feed is solid.  If I loosen a banjo bolts lots of fuel leaks out.  I have the fuel lines to the injectors removed so the pumps are open on top.  When spinning the engine by hand (w/decompression) I can see the camshaft followers moving up and down and they are operating the fuel pump plungers.  There is no fuel coming out of either pump.  I have taken one of the pumps apart and it looks like new inside.
Any Ideas?  Dan

ajaffa1

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2024, 10:33:36 AM »
Hi Dan, is the rack fully open? Normally the rack is fully closed when it is pulled to the left and fully open when pushed to the right, if the rack is closed it turns off the fuel and you will get no spill from the top of the injector pump. Bryce injector pumps have a bleed screw near the top of the injector pump, i`m not so sure about the Indian Mico injector pumps, if there is a bleed screw bleed it till it runs free of air bubbles and try again.

Bob

38ac

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2024, 05:30:46 PM »
As Bob said the racks need to be open, from the linkage end that would be towards you. Next turn the fuel on and remove the high pressure line on the #1 side which is on the right when your looking at the oil pump and push rods.  Then loosen the fitting on the pump and remove it with your fingers. Watch as there is a spring under it. Then lift the delivery valve off its seat and wait for the bubbles to stop and then replace everything. Then go to the #2 side and do same. Do to the shape of the cross over line line you must let the fuel flow briskly to bleed it. A trickle or a few drops does not bleed it. After this you should have fuel coming from both pumps and you can finish bleeding the lines and injectors
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listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2024, 09:19:45 PM »
Thanks for the answers.  As far as the rack is concerned I did operate the rack from end to end as I was spinning the motor.
I don't understand the stuff about the high pressure line.  This is a gravity feed system that supplies fuel to a banjo bolt on the side of each pump.  Loosening a banjo bolt results in lots of fuel leaking, not just a trickle.  What am I missing?

38ac

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2024, 01:54:46 AM »
You bled the infeed, that's only half the job. The line on top of the pump  going to the injector is the high pressure side. you can spin the crank for a long time and will eventually bled out or you can do it the easy way as I discribed in my first reply.
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listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2024, 12:56:57 AM »
I went back to the 16-2 last week full of anticipation.  I understood the instructions from 38ac and figured they would solve the problem.  Not so much.
The high pressure lines were already removed so I removed the top fitting and spring from fuel pump No 1.  I then removed the tiny delivery valve and the fuel level rose quickly until the whole pump body was full of fuel.  I then replaced the delivery valve, spring and fitting.  Then I did the same thing to No 2 fuel pump.  After everything was back together I still got nothing.  I spun the engine probably about 200 revolutions and did not get any fuel out of the top fittings of the pumps.  I don't know what to try next.
Dan

38ac

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2024, 10:30:04 AM »
IF the racks are free, you can move them forward and backward correct?
and IF you have them open, rack handle down, governor spring has them pulled open.
 and IF the system is bled of air
 and IF the plunger under the pumps is moving up and down when you crank the engine,
Then they will pump fuel
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ajaffa1

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2024, 11:26:07 AM »
Hi Guys, 38ac is absolutely correct as usual, however there is one other possible cause that I have only ever seen once, if someone has stripped the injector pump and assembled it with the injector element plunger back to front; then the spiral groove in it will not align with the fuel inlet so no fuel will flow into the chamber to be pressurised and sent to the fuel injector. Has someone been messing with these injector pumps? That is a very unlikely possibility as you had free fuel flow when you removed the delivery valves, Much more likely that there is still air in the fuel line and you are hoping that an injector pump will work with air in the system. Bleed them again until you get NO air bubbles.
Have you done a spill timing on these injectors? If the plunger beneath the fuel injector pump is badly adjusted it may not rise far enough to pump fuel to the fuel injectors. Please get the service manual and follow the instructions, it is very easy to damage the injector elements if incorrectly adjusted.

Bob

listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2024, 11:55:52 PM »
I have been back to the engine a few times now and have been trying to bleed the fuel pumps and get them to pump.  I have taken one of these apart and one I haven't.  Neither one will pump.
The manual I have is from Lister and says it is an Instruction book and parts list.  I don't see much about fuel pumps except setting the plunger to time them correctly.  The plunger underneath is moving up and down but I don't know if it is enough.  It seems like they move up and down about an inch but I haven't tried to measure.
I am including several pictures to see if any of you can spot anything I have done wrong.
Thanks for your help!
Dan

listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2024, 11:58:12 PM »
can only send pictures one at a time

38ac

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2024, 12:44:03 AM »
Correct, the fuel pumps are not covered in the engine manual. You need to locate a Bosch or CAV pump manual or take them to somebody that knows how to check them as assembly is not terribly difficult but way to wordy for me to try and explain here.
Going back to my earlier reply
IF the pump operator is moving up and down.
And IF you have the air bled
And IF you have the rack open
And IF the pump plunger is not stuck
And IF the pumps are correctly assembled
Then they will pump fuel, there is just no more to it than that I'm aftraid.



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listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2024, 07:25:34 AM »
picture

listerclone

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2024, 02:20:18 AM »
Maybe someone could help me find a fuel pump manual?  I have done google searches and Ebay searches and can't find anything.
Dan

sirpedrosa

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2024, 03:39:43 PM »
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

keith71

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Re: 16-2 Fuel Pumps
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2024, 04:56:49 PM »
Great detail and assembly information in those 2 drawings..
Thank you for posting those sirpedrosa. They should be just what the op needs to make sure he reassembled correctly..
12/2 Field Marshall
Jiangdong R170.