Author Topic: Diesel Truck Recommendations???  (Read 10556 times)

Rtqii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« on: September 01, 2006, 01:05:06 AM »
I just got back to a computer after a week looking at property. I bought some acreage off-grid.

The access will require a 4x4 and since I will be building I need a pulling truck that can climb steep spots in the road while pulling a load.

Anybody got any advice on what road diesel engines and rigs I should be looking at? Anything I should stay away from?

slowspeed1953

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 01:33:21 AM »
What options are you looking for? 

What vintage? 

What price range?

Peace&Love :D, Darren

Rtqii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 02:02:11 AM »
I want a truck and tandem trailer with no more than $7k invested. I don't care so much about vintage if the mileage is not excessive and it's not burning oil.

I figured I wanted to spend about $3500 on an old diesel 4X4 and drop another $1.5k into things like brakes, belts, hoses, tires and maybe new injectors.

Options??? I want rolling steel that will pull a couple of tons up the dirt & rock grades to get into my property... That's the only option, all else is frivolous... I don't mind frivolous in itself... I do mind paying for it.

I just want to know about frames & engines.

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2006, 02:11:34 AM »
if i were you given the same parameters i would lean towards an early 90's ford with a 7.3 liter diesel, idi, not the powerstroke.

powerstrokes are nice, but spendy if you have problems, the 7.3 non turbo idi engine will burn a mix of ~50% filtered waste motor oil without issue once warmed up, find one with dual tanks, that way you can start on diesel and run on oil mix if you like.

they are pretty dependable, and are not badly priced, have seen them on craigslist in that money.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

slowspeed1953

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 04:13:50 AM »
Id go with a Ford or Dodge Leave the Chevys alone.

Ive seen dodge 1/2 ton frames break for no known reason I have also seen Ford 1/2 ton frames break from heavy abuse pushing snow.

The Ford diesels are all 3/4+ ton frames and I have not seen any failures with them as they are much more stout.

I dont know if Dodge use the same frame across the board, or if they also use stronger frames on their diesel trucks. If you are interested in a Dodge I would do some research into the frames because as I said they break for no apparant reason.

The older Ford diesels are very well built trucks especially the F-350's as they have a dana 60 solid front axle. The F-250's have two different dana 44 indepentant front axles coil sprung and leaf sprung although the deisel only come standard with the latter. The indi axles can be somewhat problematic in the diesel application as they pivot on a centrally located fulcrum creating a side to side motion that is not condusive to leaf spring schakle bushing life.

Front axles aside, most of the F-350's will have more powertrain wear as they are mostly used for work trucks vs the F-250 being more commonly used in hairy homeowner apps.

The Ford diesel engines are actually International Harvester engines and the 6.9-7.3 IDI engines seem (like Bob said) to love running on just about anything the injection pump can pump. I personally own a 1987 F-250 with a 6.9 diesel and have ran it on just about anything you have heard of.

Im tired of writing but long story get a Ford diesel from in between 87-94 if you want a super reliable easy to work on truck.

If I can be of anymore help let me know as I do all the work o my truck and am well versed in its parameters.

Peace&Love :D, Darren

bitsnpieces1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 04:35:49 PM »
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Colemans.storefront/44f8522b01c9f1fe273f428d328206a3/Product/View/211801

Multi-fuel turbo diesel 6x6, very low mileage. Several to choose from. Good snow plow and logging trucks! Please contact Tom at ext. 232 for details! Prices range from $5500-$7000
  Ex-military deuce and a half.  It looks like they're showing up as the reservists trucks are replaced by newer trucks.  Low mileage but a lot of rust from others I've seen
  Should be able to find similar on other surplus sites.
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

aqmxv

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Duty Now for the Future
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 08:32:48 PM »
The M35 6x6 truck is great if it's what you need.  It'll go anywhere (slowly) and will haul 2.5 tons in the bed offroad and 5 tons onroad with the same in a trailer.  Has a sturdy, simple drivetrain, and is widely available cheaply (for what it is) in OK to very good condition.  There are some downsides:

1) All the "oil change" items tend to be unique to the truck.  Example:  the air filter is a Donaldson, but it's only used on the 6x6.  Parts are, and will be widely avaialble, but aren't as cheap as generic items would be.  It's actually cheaper to do an oil/filter change on a 5 ton 6x6 than it is on the deuce-and-a-half, becuase the 5 ton uses generic parts.

2) The bed is dock height.  This is great if there is a loading dock on both ends of your drive, decidely not great if there isn't.

3) It's awfully big and heavy.  if you don't need to haul 5 tons off road in one go, you probably would be happier with something smaller.

4) it's really a dedicated offroad truck with limited on-road capability.  If it's what you want, great, but beware the limitations.

5) ergonomics...there aren't any.  My friend wears ear plugs when driving both his M35 and his Cummins-repowered M37 over long distances.

A more practical option might be the mil-spec versions of the Jeep pickup, Chevy pickup/Blazer (CUCV), or Dodge pickup/Ramcharger.  All are rated for 1/2 ton offroad (usually double for onroad), have heavy-duty diesels and 4wd.  They're spartan, but less-so than the M35, and their drivetrains have civilian relatives, so parts are common and cheap.

The military found them a little light-duty, and wanted a common chassis with a common parts pool, so they were phased out in favor of the HMMWV in its many forms.  "A little light-duty" for winning WWIII is probably more than sufficient for your needs...

6/1 Metro IDI for home trigen

rgroves

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • View Profile
    • Flint Hills Diesel
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Colemans.storefront/44f8522b01c9f1fe273f428d328206a3/Product/View/211801

Multi-fuel turbo diesel 6x6, very low mileage. Several to choose from. Good snow plow and logging trucks! Please contact Tom at ext. 232 for details! Prices range from $5500-$7000
  Ex-military deuce and a half.  It looks like they're showing up as the reservists trucks are replaced by newer trucks.  Low mileage but a lot of rust from others I've seen
  Should be able to find similar on other surplus sites.

From the same catalog, take a look at http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Colemans.storefront/44f8522b01c9f1fe273f428d328206a3/Product/View/pickup

I have an 86 2WD Chevy with that 6.2.  Tough as hell, hauls a big load (5200 lbs empty, 8500 GVWR, so it really is able to take 3000 lbs of payload)   The only thing I don't like about mine is that it's not 4wd.  Any GM dealer will have parts and service for these old beasties.  I paid $2000 for mine, and I've used and abused if for years now.

FYI  GM made a sorry-ass attempt at diesel pickups with the 5.7, converted gas engine that took a dump at 50K miles. They were pre 1986, and I doubt you'll ever find one for sale. But just beware, they sucked in several ways.

rg
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

bitsnpieces1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2006, 02:56:34 PM »
rgroves:  That does look like good.  Has me considering a vehicle switch. 
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

Rtqii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2006, 09:49:00 PM »
I am looking at these mil-spec Chevy 6.2's and that does look like a good working truck... Enough diesel displacement to pull decently (if slow) and the extra-heavy duty frames. They are a bit outside my budget, but I will call them and ask if they have something rusty that still runs good for less.

Most mil-spec vehicles spend the majority of their lives wating for war in the motor pool. They are used on manuevers but they don't overload them and they don't run them excessively hard. They get good maintanence.

I saw a Ford 7.2 liter turbo go on ebay for $3450 a couple days ago, it needed new injectors and probably everything else. The mil-spec Chevy will end up being $2K over my budget... And I need a hitch and a trailer.

Most people are accessing their land out there with 4x4 pickups, 2wd vehicles are limited to improved roads only and I am miles off the improved roads past several bad sections. The truck needs to be highway legal tho, as I will be hauiling construction material from towns 60+ miles away. The heavy off-road mil-spec 6x6 is more truck than I need really, and will require much more fuel in an area where fuel is both scarce and expensive.

Eventually I will set up a "waste oil research center" (among other things) and will work out waste oil agreements with restaurants in town for oil pickup... But before the days come when I have a reliable fuel stream developed I will be running pump diesel and it adds up quick.

slowspeed1953

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2006, 11:02:20 PM »
If your plans are to run alt fuels both the Ford and the chevy should work out fine as both are in-direct injected which seems to be more freindly in that regard.

Both the 6.2-6.5 chevys and the 6.9-7.3 Fords use the same stanadyne db2 injection pump so no surprises there, although the Ford drives the pump like a REAL diesel engine, gear driven off the camshaft which is also gear driven. Unfortunitly the POS chevy injection pumps and camshafts are driven with a wimpy slack happy chain like the wanna be diesel engines that they are.

All the chevy auto transmissions are the vonerable turbohydromatic 700R4 4 speed overdrive units which are limp wristed at best. (I know as I appreticed rebuillding them for GM)

The early Ford autos are the truly bullit proof C6 3 speeds. The later Fords also can be had with a 4 speed automatic which has a similar reputation to the 700R4.

Peace&Love :D, Darren

Rtqii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2006, 10:51:22 AM »
Well, it took me a few days to find the truck... But I bought an 89 Ford 7.3 diesel F-350 4x4, 166K miles... It does not need anything but someone to push down on the pedal: $3400

I asked around a couple other places and read some reviews... The basic story is the same as I got from slowspeed: Get an older Ford diesel, with the 7.3 liter being the preferred hauling engine.

This truck looks cherry, I did a VIN search and was able to pull a vehicle history report. It was orginally purchased as a service truck for an electrical contracting and HVAC company out west and had a custom truck bed. The guy I bought it from was able to confirm this. When the HVAC company sells their old trucks they keep the service truck bodies and the new owner found a 96 bed that is on the truck now. I called the HVAC place and asked them about maintainence and they said all service trucks are all dealer maintained, they stated that they do not overload them, and 4 wheel drive is rarely used... They keep a couple 4x4's in their service pool, but most of the service calls are made with 2WD vehicles, the 4x4's are for bad weather/remote locations and are not on the road every day.

Anyways the guy who bought it said he only used the truck for vacations... He got his license pulled and needs quick cash to pay for his attorney fees... I got the truck, extra set of off-road tires, shell, new Cummings 3" muffler and exhaust with the Ford manifold adapter, and grill guard.

Now I need a trailer... Amazingly, it looks like a good trailer for a backhoe is going to run about what I paid for the truck.

Thanks for the help with the truck tho... You have to know what you want before you can hunt down a deal.

Tip of the hat to slowspeed  ;D

aqmxv

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Duty Now for the Future
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2006, 04:59:29 PM »
Congratulations on a good choice.  That diesel has a good reputation, as does the driveline.  Change all the lubes and you should be in good shape for some years to come.
6/1 Metro IDI for home trigen

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2006, 06:44:13 PM »
just a couple of tips for ya

use a good quality series 3 , 15/40 motor oil
keep the fuel filter changed, keep out water
if you notice the glow plug light starting to cycle faster than normal it is an indication of a few failed glowplugs, the light goes out faster as more plugs fail.
if you ever have to change out a water pump, pay attention to the short bolts, there are 4 of them, and if you install the longer one in the short holes, awe shit!
retain the oem aircleaner assy, forego the K&N
check over the injector return lines and caps at the top of the injectors, this is a frequent leak point after a few years, needing new orings installed.
have the coolant checked for proper ph balance, and correct with dca additive if needed, or flush and fill with new coolant

have fun

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Rtqii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2006, 10:22:12 PM »
Many Thanks  :)