Author Topic: Horizontal Listeroid??  (Read 11989 times)

bitsnpieces1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Horizontal Listeroid??
« on: August 31, 2006, 02:49:11 PM »
  Just posting a question for some quick coments.  Don't have to be indepth.  Just looking for a few suggestions. 
  What would you think about laying a listeroid over on it's side to give a horizontal cylinder cinfiguration?  Benefits?  Problems?  What would have to be changed/reconfigured? 
  Purpose is that I tend to like horizontal more and not really looking for a Changfa.  Wanting a work engine not a display engine so no 'other manufacture' 'antique' engine. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 02:51:37 PM by bitsnpieces1 »
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

fuddyduddy

  • Guest
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 03:05:02 PM »
see,  http://143.216.21.253/mpcimg/16490/B16417_19.htm . Am told there are some being made in India, but cannot find them.

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 03:19:36 PM »
I'm trying to imagine how  it would be oiled and WHAT the mounting block would look like.   ??? ???
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

oldnslow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 05:16:34 PM »
You *might* probably tilt one a few degrees as is. We are all probably thinking the same thing...oiling. If you had one with plane bearings you could dry-sump and pressure lube it externally. Then it may survive horizontally, but lots of mods; oil passages and such...etc.

Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

sid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 06:21:15 PM »
I think oiling the lister would be the major problem// almost all of the antique starionary engines were made to run that way// most had a simple drip lubrication on the side of the piston to lubricate the cylinder,wrist pin and liner//most only had simple babbitt brgs for the crank. they were lubricated with a felt wick with oil, some had pressure grease cup but very few of the older ones had roller brgs.. also the rpm was close to a lister, 250 to 800 rpm// I have several engines that were made almost 100 years ago and still have the orignal babbit brgs and pistons and rings.as far as i can tell..the orignal rings are easy to spot,,on some they are not the same thickness all the way around// they are thicker on the back side//the piston are hugh.on a 8 hp stove, the piston weighs about 50 lbs/so replacement would be hard to find.the rings a 6.75 in in diameter are the only easy thing to find/ the only hard part is compressing the rings and trying to move a piston that size in sideways into the cylinder//sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

Jim Mc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 12:05:33 AM »
How about a Ruston-Hornsbyoid?  Engines like the one iin my avatar were, AKAIK, at one time manufactued in India - just like the Indian Lister engines.  I have seen sales literature showing this, but never an actual engine.

But, as was just mentioned, the horizintal engines had open crankcases, and go through more lube oil than a modern closed-crankcase engine.  Thus they might be considered obsolete even by the developing nations of the world...

sid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 12:49:37 AM »
an open crank engine does use a little more oil than a closed crank but not that much//at a drop every 10-20 seconds// it takes a long time to use a quart.. also the oil is alway new and never reused/so you do not circulate dirty oil//but they do tend to be very messy//  they are a lot of trouble keeping the rite drip/ as the engine heats up.. you tend to get more oil.also an air bubble will stop all drip/ sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

bitsnpieces1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 04:05:45 PM »
  The oiling and mounting issues are biggies.  I would probably just go with pressure lube, cost being a determinate in whether to do it or not.  Mounting the block is another one.  Probably building a cradle for the crankcase would be the way to go with additional support for cylinder/head.  Could be done, but, how cheaply.  I'm not at all averse to spending the money if the return is what I want. 
  I was wanting to use readily available parts rather than likely custom made.  Thus the idea of a Listeroid especially with the new kits available.  BUT, brings up EPA New Engine issue.   
  An open crank wouldn't be an issue, just build a sealable sheet metal cover to capture the flyoff.  Could do without full pressure lube, just use pump to reservoirs gravity feeding points that need it. 
  I really prefer the looks of a horizontal cylinder engine.  Trying to get that with something that can be worked on and parts changed reliably.  Will need to go back and reread EPA stuff.  That alone might make it next to impossible. 
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

Dail R H

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 09:55:29 PM »
   Whitte , I saw one at "Rough'N Tumble" ,10 hp I think.,also 'Thermoil"

sid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2006, 10:24:17 PM »
before you go to the trouble of putting one of those in a truck?????go to a few engine shows and see one.. they are not the answer you are looking for/ i know of 3/ one is a 15 hp reid in a tractor..wide open it just shakes forward. it almost goes backwards when it fires.the other 2 are 10 hp hercules and fairbanks///they just chatter along// all are well made and have been a lot of work but speed and acceleration is out of the question// I hope I have not discouraged you but they are not pratical//at least the one that I have seen//sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

GIII

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2006, 11:49:31 PM »
A Whitte Dieselelectric will satisfy your desires.  Nice horizontal engine running 900 RPM driving a 4 pole alternator at 1800 RPM with extra large oil capacity pressure lubrication, and a built in cooling system.  Builtin regulator for nice regulation at 5kw with diesel end rated 7.5 Hp makes for plenty of reserve for starting motors.  These are designed for 24/7 with monthly oil changes and about 15 year rebuilds.  Nicely used ones can be had out west where they powered ranches until relatively recently, for about $1500-$2500.  These light plans are mush nicer than any Lister if you need a dependable worry free setup.  Latter units had high temp and low oil pressure shut-down.

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2006, 12:07:59 AM »
Hmmm...the only Wittes I've seen out west are in the ranch sales with spun bearings.  They average about $100 each.   Sorry, but they DON'T have a good reputation in N. Nevada/S. Idaho.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

GIII

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2006, 12:24:54 AM »
Spun bearings, sand in the crankcase...Always something isn't it?
Here is a link for those who haven't seen one.

http://www.enginads.com/bigengin.cgi/noframes/read/38790

George

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2006, 12:31:02 AM »
thanks for the picture.  That's a different Witte than I've ever seen, but understand the BLM used a lot of them for remote pumps in the '70s and '80s that had flywheels.

The ones seen here in several auctions looks like half a VW flat four.  They're two clylinder, opposed with a hatch on top.  Sometimes at the auctions the lid is missing and the CC is full of water.  They go really cheap.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Patch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Horizontal Listeroid??
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2006, 03:07:11 AM »
Photos from Rough-n-Tumble, of Witte diesel gen set:

https://home.comcast.net/~jtfri/pics/RoughTumble/index.html

plus a few others.

John
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 03:22:46 AM by Patch »