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Author Topic: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)  (Read 596 times)

Ernie

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Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« on: March 07, 2024, 03:34:41 PM »
I have a lister 2 cil Lister diesel engine and a Brush A.C. Generator for over 20 years. In the past the set was mounted on a trailer, they needed the trailer, i got the set. Informaton on the generator:
Frame SCTF 225 voltage range 380/220  and conn. Diag. E1184855 50 HZ and 1500 r.p.m.  I am looking for wireing diagram of the generator.  It has a 12 volt battery supply.
It looks like the SCTF 320, same conn. Diag but the 320 needs 24V.

The set is still working, i need the wirering diagram to see if it is posible to mound a modern AVR unit. There is no automatic start system, it was designed to start manual.
If someone have a copy of the diagram please mail it to me. (I dit a google seach and a seach on this forum no results)

Maybe it is possible to adjust the voltage from 220V to 230 and 380 to 400V.

Regards Ernie (Netherlands)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 04:34:29 PM by Ernie »

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2024, 06:17:13 PM »
some more pictures

ajaffa1

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2024, 06:19:57 AM »
Good day Ernie, a very interesting question you have posted. You want to fit an AVR to a generator that outputs both 380 volt 3 phase at 50 Hz and also 220 volts at 50Hz. Your generator stator is wired in a Y configuration with the three phase coming off the three legs of the Y but you also have a fourth slip ring on the stator that comes off the centre of the Y, your 220 volts will be between that centre tap and one of the outer legs of the Y. I have never seen an AVR that could control both three phase output and single phase output, I am not saying that such a unit does not exist but if it does it might be very expensive.
I am curious to know why you want to fit an AVR, do you run a lot of very sensitive electronic devices? I ran a ST2 Generator with a single phase 7 KVA Brush generator for many years in Northern New South Wales, Australia, under no load it was dialed in to produce 240 volts at 50 HZ, at full load it would produce 235 volts at 49.7 HZ, not bad for a fifty year old generator set. I ran computers, TVs and all household electrical appliances off this unit without any problems.
Personally, I would replace the old selenium rectifiers with modern silicon rectifiers and then adjust the wire rheostats to get as close to your desired voltages as possible, check that the governor mechanism is working correctly and leave it at that. If you have sensitive electrical appliances, feed them off a UPS which will stabilise the voltage supply to those items.

Hope this helps,

Bob

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2024, 11:06:07 AM »
Hi Bob, thanks for the reply (in line answers)

Good day Ernie, a very interesting question you have posted. You want to fit an AVR to a generator that outputs both 380 volt 3 phase at 50 Hz and also 220 volts at 50Hz. Your generator stator is wired in a Y configuration with the three phase coming off the three legs of the Y but you also have a fourth slip ring on the stator that comes off the centre of the Y, your 220 volts will be between that centre tap and one of the outer legs of the Y. I have never seen an AVR that could control both three phase output and single phase output, I am not saying that such a unit does not exist but if it does it might be very expensive.

Looks like i got from the power company 3 fase Nutral and earth. If an AVR can control the 380V part the 220V part is always good (1:1 relation 380:1.73=219.6)

I am curious to know why you want to fit an AVR, do you run a lot of very sensitive electronic devices? I ran a ST2 Generator with a single phase 7 KVA Brush generator for many years in Northern New South Wales, Australia, under no load it was dialed in to produce 240 volts at 50 HZ, at full load it would produce 235 volts at 49.7 HZ, not bad for a fifty year old generator set. I ran computers, TVs and all household electrical appliances off this unit without any problems

No i dont need a AVR ( i thougt it was the only way to go from 380V to 400V)

Personally, I would replace the old selenium rectifiers with modern silicon rectifiers. Ok

and then adjust the wire rheostats to get as close to your desired voltages as possible. Is the rheostats the only resister i can adjust, above post second picture? (Pentagon 2R0)

check that the governor mechanism is working correctly and leave it at that. I have to use goole for the governor mechanism  :)

Are the 3 fixed resistors (Pentagon 2R0) to be replaced by 2R0 100 Watt resistors? (Pentagon 2R0 is on the resistor, 2R9 in real)

regards, Ernie

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2024, 03:41:47 PM »

Hi Bob,

check that the governor mechanism is working correctly and leave it at that. I have to use goole for the governor mechanism  :)
I used google, i am going to check if the rpm is correct (1500)
I hope it is correct, now 380V and 50,5Hz with no balast.

Yesterdag i dit some work at the fixed resistors, left yesterday, 2 right more than 15 years ago and it still fit.

ajaffa1

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2024, 09:16:57 PM »
Hi Ernie, those resistors look to be in good condition. When I rebuilt my Lister generator I spray painted the resistors with a black exhaust manifold paint, looked good and stopped them from corroding.

Bob

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2024, 04:55:56 PM »
Hi Bob,

I hope i will work in grey as well  :D

Ernie

ajaffa1

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2024, 08:24:58 PM »
Hi Ernie, looks good. I still recommend replacing that selenium rectifier with a modern silicon bridge rectifier. Selenium rectifiers deteriorate over time, if you are going to use the originals please watch out for a smell a bit like garlic, this will be coming from a failing rectifier and is extremely carcinogenic, don`t breath it in!

Bob

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2024, 08:44:58 PM »
Hi Bob,

I use google for the word "carcinogenic"  same with high power transmitting tubes and berilum in power transistors

I just bought 3x  1 fase rectifier bridge, deliver time 18 april (shown price is for one) (just before i read your reply ;D)

Ernie
« Last Edit: March 24, 2024, 09:37:24 PM by Ernie »

Ernie

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2024, 09:52:04 PM »
Last Saterdag i received the new rectifiers.

Mounted on the existing holes with M4 bolts

Still hoping that someone has the wireing diagram  ore an example 3 fase and N (4 slip-rings) send me an email and i give you my mobile number you can whats app the drawing by making an photo.  ;D

Ernie

ajaffa1

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2024, 10:51:23 PM »
Very nice work Ernie. I can`t help you with a wiring diagram, I have only ever worked on single phase Brush generator heads.

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Help Needed on a lister brush set (wiring diag E1184855)
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2024, 11:04:16 PM »
Hello again Ernie, just a thought on where to get a wiring diagram. Try sending a personal message to DieselGman, you should find him in the members list at the top of the page. He has a very extensive diesel generator library. He is running a business but his prices are very reasonable.

Bob