Author Topic: Auto Shut Down  (Read 37548 times)

BruceM

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Auto Shut Down
« on: December 31, 2005, 08:11:20 PM »
I'm interested in this topic and wanted to pass along some links to fwmurphy.com that Shipchief (Scott) suggested that I thought were fantastic:

Here's a vibration sensor
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/vibration_time_overspeed/vs2.htm

Here's an oil level switch/guage
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/fluid_level/l100_l120_l127_l128.htm

Here's a diesel engine "rack puller" (shut down, spring loaded)
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/engine_motor/rp75.htm

And a temperature switch/guage:
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/temperature/20t_25t.htm

I'll report back when I find some pricing on these.

Bruce McCreary
Metro 6/1 (2000 vintage, aged in the crate)
Snowflake, AZ


« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 08:43:27 PM by BruceM »

dkmc

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 05:45:38 PM »

Bruce,
I'm afraid the prices might scare us all..... :o


dan k

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 10:08:24 PM »
I think the Murphy page has alot of good ideas that DoItYourSelfers could 'snitch' and make from stuff that you find for as close to free as possible.
It's not really stealing....8)
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Reno Speedster

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 05:45:04 PM »
The temp/switch gauge would be a nice thing to have and could be used with a very simple battery operated allam so that it would sound when/if the temp spikes.  Since a rising temp can indicate a number of ills( low oil, low coolant) this would be a nice feature to have.

Reno Speedster

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 07:32:01 PM »
I looked arround o the web and found a price of $176 for the temp gauge....A little pricey for me.  Perhaps a simpler one mounted to the head would be better (cheaper) though an audible alarm would be a nice feature.  It would be nice to know what it is actually running at.

Morgan

WWIProps

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 11:28:10 PM »
You can build an overheat alarm out of an $8-$12 automobile idiot light switch.  Don't buy the temperature guage sending unit.  You want one that closes at a certain temperature, say 230*F.  The auto parts stores that still have paper catalogs around can help you get the exact switch specifications.  Simple twelve volt circuit to an alarm and a fuel shutoff solenoid and your done. 

Of course I am more talk than action.  Bought the switch haven't made the system.  I am thinking of drilling and tapping the head between the water outlet and the compression changeover valve hole.  Anyone had the guts to try it yet?

Scott

BruceM

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 11:32:24 PM »
Thanks for finding that price, Morgan.  It seems a bit much to me, also.  I'll be the oil and vibration sensors are equally precious.  I'd love to get my hands on the motion sensor to see how it's made.

Guess I'll homebrew the auto shut down.  I do like the rack shut off spring with a solenoid trigger approach that Murphy uses.  This seems a situation where our resident master gunsmith might have some thoughts on the spring triggering/reset mechanism.

Any body found a nice 12V DC solenoid with some balls?  I bought one from Jameco and was pretty disappointed; the force listed was apparently only at 0.01mm from full retraction, as at 0.2" it was useless.

Thanks for your post Scott.  What part temp switch did you find and what's the threaded hole size?
How about drilling/threading the pipe after the thermostat? 

Bruce



« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 11:39:41 PM by BruceM »

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 01:37:43 AM »
I was thinking about using a 12v starter solonoid from a GM car. It's used to pull the bendix and engage the main switch for the motor, so it has plenty of force.
I was planning to use it for a trip type shutdown. It would be normaly NOT ENERGIZED until the shutdown condition (like high temp) ENERGIZES it to pull the trigger out of a spring operated shutdown. Once the trigger is pulled, the solonoid circuit is OPENED.
All the sensor switches would be N.O. and the one that closes for the sutdown condition will pass the 12 volts to the solonoid. When the solonoid pulls the trigger, it opens a switch to DE ENERGIZE the solonoid to save the battery and prevent damage to the solonoid. Standard pressure and temp switched are available thru your auto parts store, VDO, Stewart Warner, Hobbs, etc.
Simple / cheap. ;D
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

BruceM

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2006, 03:36:47 AM »
I hadn't thought of an auto starter solenoid.  That should have way more than enough force!
I'll see what I can find at my NAPA store. Thanks, Scott.

Surplus Center has one 12v solenoid which looks like it could possibly do the trick for a rack spring trigger release:.  6 lbs max, 3/4" throw. $12.

Does anyone know of an automotive oil level sensor that might be adapted to our needs?

Best Wishes,
Bruce
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 04:40:55 AM by BruceM »

BruceM

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2006, 04:06:59 PM »
McMaster.com has both vertical and horizontal "slosh proof" polypropylene flued level switches.
The horizontal unit requires a 1" hole-  I'm not thrilled at the prospect of drilling a huge hole just below the oil level to find out if they can manage with splash lube.

Plan B: tap into the drain plug with a tee, and make an outboard oil "sump", just like the Murphy oil guage/sensor.

The McMaster has vertical bracket mount switches ("slosh guard") that might be mounted in the sump ($80.) with just a wire lead to be sealed.  But horizontal switches are as cheap as $13 ea., $28 with "slosh guard". 

Bruce


BruceM

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2006, 05:42:04 PM »
FW Murphy sensor/switch pricing:
Here are some prices from murcal.com

L100- (Oil level guage and high/low switches)  $58.50
RP75- Diesel rack puller (30 lbs pull)                $205.75
VS2-   Vibration Sensor                                 $102.25
TM4594  DC Hour meter, low current             $37.50

The rack puller is out, but the L100 and VS2 look OK to me, price wise.  The L100 has two level switches, high and low (high for coolant leaking in the oil). The VS2 is a 3 axis vibration switch that is adjustable in all three axis.  So if something should start to vibrate in my absence...


BruceM

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Rack Puller, Pusher
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2006, 01:08:23 AM »
I took some measurements and thought more about a homemade Lister 6/1 rack puller today.

I see three options:

1.  I could just fit a sliding flat steel arm behind my MICO oil filter using the two lower oil filter bolts that now aren't used and it would  come out  and around the rack pin (L shaped arm)- and could be pulled from the other end.  About 15 lbs of force is needed to securely get a shut down.  I didn't measure but it's less than an inch of throw. There would be plenty of room for a spring trigger solenoid on the far end, and cocking the spring could be done by just pulling the lever out from the IP rack pin.

2. My throttle linkage has a detent and round bushing cast into the arm above where the governor hook is mounted.  This may have been an auto shut down connection at one time. it would take a push of about 20 lbs, only 3/8" of throw.  There's no practical way I can see to get a pull here, because of the linkage configuration, and a lever would be needed to cock the spring.

3. A cable to a hole in the lever arm of the existing shut down lever/cam would take about 8 lbs of force and a few inches of throw.  The routing of the cable is tricky-  not ideal but possible to route some flex cable above the fuel filter.  It's not a straight pull, so some more force will be needed.

I'll play around soon with these options and see what seems best to me.  Suggestions welcomed!

Bruce

BruceM

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Will Fuel shutoff solenoid valve shut down engine quickly?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2006, 10:07:36 PM »
I believe the best option for solenoid triggered, spring powered shut down is to have a solenoid release the governor spring, adding very light spring between the mounting bolt on the IP to the linkage arm to assist in holding the rack closed when the engine speed is nearly zip.

That said, I'm wondering if a solenoid valve in the fuel supply line would do the trick?  This would be a nice simple solution that would lend itself better to auto starts.

Will closing the fuel line before the filter result in a fairly fast shut down?

Bruce

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Auto Shut Down
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2006, 11:46:34 PM »
No.
The two accepted ways to shut down an engine in a hurry:
1) Close the fuel injection rack
2) Shut off the intake air
The fuel supply shut off valve will eventually shut the engine down, but you would get a prolonged 'brown out' that could damage your refrigerator or computer.
They are included in ship's fire protection systems, usually manually, and may be used also for CO2 flooding of the engine room.They are not usually used for overspeed trips, low oil pressure shutdowns, high coolant temp. Although the unusual Cummins PT fuel system sometimes uses it.
Nowadays, the power is cut off from the engine managment computer, and the fuel injector solonoids stop working, then the engine quits. (same as forcing down the fuel injection rack)
My worn out lister petter would continue to run with a pipe plug threaded into the intake port on the head, so it must have been sucking air out of the engine crankcase, up past the rings! :o
You could continue to design a bracket that bolts onto the standard fuel filter pad. That would be a universal trip with links, springs, trigger, solonoid and isolation switch to allow start up, and de-energise after a shutdown has occured. Would work on singles and twins :D
Scott E
P.S. your banjo bolt experience caused me to pick up a pair of George's custom ones as on your photo. I'm trying the steel ones. Makes it easy to upgrade to hose or tube fittings from the auto parts store when upgrading to a decent fuel filter (remote mounted to make room for that trip device you are designing ;))
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

BruceM

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Auto Shut Down via fuel line solenoid valve, governor spring update
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2006, 01:20:09 AM »
Update on two items:
Releasing the governor spring on my 6/1 does a nice fast shutdown, no extra spring required. The governor pushes the rack all the way in immediately and it stays there.  A solenoid release for this spring attachment at the engine block seems like the best spring powered approach- no overpowering of the governor spring needed.

Pinching off the fuel line within a few inches of the injection pump (IP) causes an immediate shut down (fast as above).  It apparently causes immediate cavitaton and no fuel.  Greasel sells a 12VDC fuel line valve (FSV 1 $38.50) which could be used:
http://www.greasel.com/Individual-Components.html

Pinching off the fuel line before the fuel filter doesn't work, the fuel line must be closed just before the IP.

I'll have to sleep on it but a solenoid type valve seems to win the KISS prize, and could do remote starting for me someday if needed.

Steve-
Try a bleed screw on your new banjo- it really works great.  Air comes out- IP starts working nicely without complaint.  On my IP otherwise, the banjo bolt must be loosened or the IP cavitates (the side bleed screw is not effective), but then there is some air that must be pumped out the hard way.
I filed a flat spot on George's brass fitting, drilled and tapped for an 8/32 screw, filed a flat on one side of the threads to allow better bleed air path, and use a small O ring for a gasket( till I can find something better).

Best Wishes,
Bruce