Author Topic: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS  (Read 1600 times)

ejgagne

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Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« on: August 03, 2023, 10:04:02 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Being an engineer with a mind that never seems to go to sleep, I had a thought the other night whilst sitting.
That thought was, "has anyone here, or know of anyone who has, run an AC compressor from a Listeroid CS?"
While my setup using a 12/1 CS will mostly be for backup, and for running the house, just because I will be able
to, I wanted to see if anyone had in fact used a Listeroid for air conditioning while also making power.

Given that the average car has an air conditioning capacity of 2 tons (24K BTU), and some trucks have more,
this might be an instance where using commonly available parts might prove workable, and not all that expensive.
I can make biodiesel very inexpensively (currently do produce), so it may prove to be less expensive to air
condition the house versus the nearly 50 cents per KWh in our area (cost per KWh + transmission cost).

Being an engineer, and knowing people in the HVAC field, I don't think there is anything we can't solve, but
just wanted to see if anyone has done this, and how it worked for them if they did.

I hope this finds folks here on the forum doing well, and I look forward to chatting with folks.

Take care,

Eric G.

broncodriver99

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2023, 12:01:56 AM »
I see no reason it couldn't be done. It has crossed my mind being in the HVAC industry but, automotive air conditioning systems are extremely inefficient. Everything I have ever seen shows a need/use of ~10HP of engine power for 2-3 tons of cooling in a car. The same cooling can be done with an electric compressor for far less horsepower requirement. Automotive systems are designed knowing there is much more horsepower available but concentrating on robustness in much more inhospitable working conditions.

A what we call unitary system here in the states, can accomplish the same cooling with a 2-3HP compressor input. While you may be able to reduce the HP requirement for an automotive compressor by bringing the system conditions more inline with a stationary household system I would be willing to bet that this is one of those situations where it is more efficient to produce electricity with the prime mover and perform the cooling with an electric compressor.

ajaffa1

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2023, 12:10:18 AM »
Hi Eric, after the Australian bushfires in 2019 I had to live in a 20 foot caravan for several years until we found a new home. The caravan had a 240 volt , 15 amp power hookup to a Lister CS6/1 with an ST generator head.  The electric air conditioning unit was a very compact single unit that was built in under the seats in the "living room". This unit would maintain the temperature at around 22 centigrade with outside air temps of around 40C. I was running mineral diesel at around $1.2 a litre so it worked out quite expensive. I also had to turn off the air conditioning if I wanted to boil the kettle, but that shouldn`t be a problem with a 12/2.
Some freight/shipping containers have a very effective cooler/freezer unit built in. These are electric units with a backup petrol engine should be easy to adapt one of those to run directly/mechanically off a Lister, might be very noisy!

Good luck.

Bob

veggie

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2023, 03:39:07 PM »
ejgagne,
Yes, it will probably work. You could also drive the condenser cooling fan from a pulley on the engine (or an alternator to a 12 volt fan).
Consider running straight heated vegetable oil for fuel. That would cut your fuel costs to near zero.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2023, 03:41:23 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)

Apply

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2023, 02:35:50 PM »
Running AC from a Listeroid CS sounds like a neat project. I haven't tried it myself, but it's always interesting to see creative setups. The cost comparison with the local kWh rates and making biodiesel adds an extra layer to the experiment.

Powdermonkey

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2023, 02:37:59 AM »
I run a 3-ton AC system off my 12/1 and 16/2, electrically.  The KEY is to be able to produce sufficient amperage, according to the LRA spec on the condenser unit.  That can easily be handled by oversizing your actual generator head.  Me, I use 20kw generator heads, even on my smaller engines.  THIS provides the momentary starting amperage to get the AC running, and after that....it's all gravy.

ejgagne

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2024, 09:19:47 PM »
Howdy everyone!

It's been a little bit since I have posted, mainly due to lack of time on my part, but the mind is still whirring away non stop. You would think by now that
auto manufacturers would have moved in toward efficiency with respect to A/C  especially with the greenie's breathing down their necks, but it looks and
sounds like that may  not  be the case. Perhaps it could be that a reciprocating style A/C compressor of the commercial type might work, along with a
magnetic clutch of sorts. The gen head I have is rated at 13.5 Kw, so in combination with the flywheel mass and a hard start kit for the A/C, it could well
be done that way as was mentioned. The fuel will be biodiesel, which will be distilled on site using local WVO as the feed stock. Adding to all of this might be
some batteries and an inverter to maximize usage and gain more off grid time. Now I just need the Spring weather to make a return, so that I can start
chipping away at things. I hope this find everyone doing well :)

Eric

broncodriver99

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Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2024, 03:23:32 AM »
They have moved towards better efficiency. Recip compressors haven't been used in decades. Scroll and swashplate compressors are the norm now. Electrically driven compressors and heat pumps have also started making their way in. They started in electric cars out of necessity but have started showing up in combustion engine cars because of the increased efficiency.

The inefficiency is due to not being able to reasonably or affordably design a system that will work in any and every climate from the arctic to the mojave while giving several hundred thousand miles of service with little or no problems.

In your situation where you will be building for primarilly steady state and stationary use your system if properly engineered would fall much more in line with unitary equipment and be considerably more efficient. The one caveat being the compressor. If using an automotive compressor it will be less efficient than an electrically driven compressor that is properly sized for the load. Automotive compressors are designed for robustness first and efficiency second.

If you like to tinker it is definitely a worthwhile project and I would be interested to hear how it goes. I think when all is said and done electrically driving the system is the way to go though.

Any thoughts on refrigerant type and do you have a source for refrigerant?

With the price you are paying for electricity and the inexpensive fuel you have access to I would think either way you could save some money using the listeroid. What part of the world are you in?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 03:28:37 AM by broncodriver99 »