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Author Topic: Tesla  (Read 367 times)

mikenash

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Tesla
« on: December 05, 2022, 05:52:48 AM »
I wonder if any of the folks here have been following Tesla

Say what you will about the man - but the company is a game-changer in so many ways

It's the #2 vehicle seller here in NZ - behind Toyota, of course

But, imho, it'll be the Tesla Semi that will really disrupt a quite stagnant industry.  The numbers speak for themselves:

A 500 mile (800K) range, fully-loaded (something like 28 tonnes payload)

A half-hour charge time to 70% of battery

1000 volt truck & charging electrics - allowing small, light components using cooled charging conducters etc

Believe it or not as you choose - Tesla says they'll sell 50,000 of them in 2024.  The queue to buy is long & getting longer

What prompts me to mention this here is my memory of our former Australian friend challenging all comers to wager (was it $100K) that Tesla wouldn't be here in a few years

I'm watching the space with interest.  I just love the tech

ajaffa1

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 07:03:27 AM »
Hi Mike, I haven`t been following the recent Tesla activities of Mr. Musk but a vehicle with that sort of range and quick charging would be ideal in a relatively small country like NZ, with lots of hydro electric generation. I doubt they would be so popular in Australia due to the huge distances between population centers.
I certainly remember a lot of vitriol directed at Tesla by Lord Volderglort, I have his email address if you would like to call him on the wager.
I have wondered about an electric vehicle myself, now that I live in Tasmania. The local shops are only a few minutes drive away, while our weekly supermarket shopping is only about an hour drive. A small EV would be ideal and could easily be charged from the 7.5 KW solar system I am planning to put on the roof.
I still don`t think that EVs are the answer in Australia until the government here works out how it is going to generate and store all the electricity needed to fuel them. I have no idea as to how much diesel and petrol get used every day here but I think the cost of replacing it all with electricity generation would be enormous, the system here can`t cope with air conditioning in summer and blackouts are common.
I hate to raise the issue of nuclear power, but it is probably the only way to fuel an entire continent using EVs but the Aussie population would never accept the idea.
I keep hopeing that some genius is going to come up with a cheap long lasting battery that will allow solar energy to be stored during the day and released into the grid at night. I`m still waiting

Bob

cobbadog

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 10:15:47 AM »
There is no doubt on their performance but distances here in Oz totally rule out an EV for me. Hybrid is a better option if an EV is your prefference. I still cant get a straight answer out of these vehicles like

How much do they cost to charge from home at normal electricity prices not subsided by solar ?
How much to charge at the charging stations dotted here and there ?
How long is the life expectancy of the battery?
Cost of replacing said battery and what happens to the old one?

The old hear say thing rings in the back of my head the cost involved in mining the  raw materials to make the batteries as well.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2022, 05:44:22 PM »
There is no doubt on their performance but distances here in Oz totally rule out an EV for me. Hybrid is a better option if an EV is your prefference. I still cant get a straight answer out of these vehicles like

How much do they cost to charge from home at normal electricity prices not subsided by solar ?
How much to charge at the charging stations dotted here and there ?
How long is the life expectancy of the battery?
Cost of replacing said battery and what happens to the old one?

The old hear say thing rings in the back of my head the cost involved in mining the  raw materials to make the batteries as well.

Hearsay's a bugger.  Who do you believe?  How do you decide if they know what they're talking about?  . . .

https://www.google.com/search?q=car+care+nut+should+you+buy+a+hybrid&oq=car+care+nut+should+you+buy+a+hybrid&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.19331j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:085e76c3,vid:3m5j8nJrMc8

See above?

I rate this guy for automotive stuff (perhaps because I'm a Toyota person) . . . He has several vids on hybrids good & bad

Got a neighbour here sold his muscle car & bought a Tesla model S. he put the extra $20K he realised on the deal into solar + batteries and he charges the car "for free" while he's at work with his company car :)


Cheers

38ac

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2022, 07:54:21 PM »
There is without a doubt a place for electric powered vehicles,,,, in due time. What bothers me is the back ground Faniggling being done to make them make any sence now. Dino is still plentiful and should be cheap but they squeeze supplies and choke engines down so that subsidized electric can even remotely compete. In the states every dino vehicle oays for the roads in fuel taxes while electrics humm around on them free of charge. Of course the proponents forget to mention that in their long term solutions. A diesel  tractor trailer truck pays over $1 per mile in taxes to be on the road while the electric truck will pay zero.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 07:57:54 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

ajaffa1

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2022, 09:05:41 PM »
The governments around the world are all in a lot of trouble, they have signed up to reduce fossil fuel emissions to net zero over the next 30 years. To achieve this they need everyone to buy an EV, at the same time, they need to shut every fossil fuel power generating plant.
Subsidies on EVs to encourage ownership will cost them money, replacing the energy generation and distribution network with solar, wind, wave, hydro and nuclear will cost them a lot more money. At the same time they will loose the income stream from taxes on fossil fuels.
The only way to get the figures to add up is to tax electricity heavily, anyone in favor of higher electric bills? 

Another thing that they have overlooked is the petrochemical industry; for whom petrol and diesel are merely a by product of producing lubricants, plastics, fertilizers and etc. If you have any doubts about this, have a look around the room you are in, just about everything has been produced from oil. The paint on your walls, the varnish on the floor, the foam in your furniture, right down to the plastic keys on you computer keyboard. What impact will net zero have?

It`s nice being old, while I do worry about these issues, I won`t be about to have to find the solutions.

Bob

cobbadog

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 04:55:41 AM »
Hi mike, how can your mate say he is getting his charge for free, he paid $20K for a solar system. That will take a long time to pay for itself. This is why we cannot get a price on how much it cost to charge a vehicle. Many people claim they charge on the solar but someone had to pay to put the solar there. How much if they had to buy it off the grid is what needs to be put out there.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 05:39:29 PM »
Isn't it interesting.  there are so many opinions

And, of course, some folks feel strongly about them - especially when Govt has its big feet under the table

Yes, of course nothing is free.  In this particular case I suspect he bought a big muscle car cos he always wanted one when he was a kid and because he had done well in business as a franchisee.  Eventually realising the muscle car was a two-door liability, and trading it for a tesla and some "free" charging probably felt like a pretty good outcome

And, yes, anyone who runs the number can see immediately that you'd need a BIG solar to charge an EV

In my own circumstances - 65, a year or two away from retirement, moving towards an "off-grid" future, and probably living fairly quietly - I could exoand the solar, spend, say, $20K on a medium size & age Nissan leaf and never buy another litre of petrol except for my toys.  But the simple reality is I won't burn $30K of petrol if I live to be 90 - which I won't

Everyon'e situation is different, of course, too.  In our small country down here we have hydro, wind & geothermal producking 85-90% of our electricity; and it's only Govt stupidity that stops us expanding the hydro - which is the most reliable.

We could easily meet the engergy requirement of electrifying our fleet if we expanded our generation at the rate as our electric fleet

Of course many countries are in a very different situation

Cheers

Hugh Conway

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2022, 10:20:25 PM »

mikenash said "Of course many countries are in a very different situation"

Here's one of them........

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/switzerland-considers-electric-vehicle-ban-avoid-blackouts

Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

broncodriver99

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2022, 03:39:36 AM »
Here in the US California has implemented a "sell by date" on internal combustion vehicles of 2035 forcing only electric vehicles after that point. But, at the same time they are now asking ev owners not to charge them to avoid blackouts and overtaxing the grid. Sadly a few other states have already signed on to the lunacy, mine included. We are now scrambling trying to figure a way out.

I do see them as a viable part of our future once the infrastructure is sorted out but I think it silly to set dates in stone on such a new technology.

I was sitting in traffic the other day looking at the hundreds of vehicles sharing the same miserable experience I was and it just crossed my mind the question of how many power plants would we have to build to deliver/offset the amount of energy sitting in the fuel tanks of all of those vehicles. Solar, no way. Nuclear, maybe.

My area is served by two reactors about 30 mins away. There are provisions for a third reactor at the same site that was never built and I don't know that even that could handle it. We are fortunate that the Nuclear is very effective at handling the base load and ramping up to handle the load when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing on all of the renewable projects they are working on that cost an additional $20/month on my electric bill.

cobbadog

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2022, 04:39:47 AM »
I heard that Europe has a similar cut off date for internal combustion engines to cease selling of 2035. You are right about governments making commitments before they know for certain that they can be met but that is the same with many things they turn their hand to.
There certainly is a place for EV and Hybrids but the cost of buying electricity here at the moment is prohibitive so I wont look at them until I can see the actual cost of charging and a lot more charging stations as we also live in the rural area and so far we dont have one charging station here but a station has been spoken about but no install time as yet.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2022, 08:58:18 PM »
If the green movement weren't so dirty on Nukes - we could al have more, better, cheaper, more consistent power imho

I can't help thinking they're a good, medium-term, green-ish strategy - despite the disposal issues

Cheers

ajaffa1

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2022, 09:20:26 PM »
Rolls Royce are selling a small modular nuclear reactor. They are manufactured in a factory and assembled on site. A very cheap, quick and easy solution to the electricity issue. They also are manufacturing hydrogen generating and liquification equipment that can be used to produce liquid fuel for vehicles. Coupled together these would produce electricity for EVs and liquid fuel for longer journeys.

They don`t give any information about how to decommission the plant at the end of it`s life or where they plan to dump the radioactive waste.

Bob

cobbadog

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2022, 05:09:55 AM »
I would think that nuclear energy would be a good boost to the system too and I would have no issues if they wanted to build one locally as there are only issues if the Russians blow them up from stupidity or earthquakes flood them out from a Tsunami wave. There ahs been a nuke plant in Sydney for more years than I can remember with not one issue and no green glowing people wandering the streets nearby.
As for the disposal, I guess we do that the same way we dispose of other countries nuke waste and take it out to S.A. and store it there.
But the possible issue is how much does it cost to build a viable nuke plant to make electrickery then what will be the selling price? Any cheaper than what we get charged now? I feel that the old coal fired plants should be able to be converted or build new ones that run on natural gas or even hydrogen since there is already a plant making hydrogen for vehicles in Queensland how clean is that when it burns?
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

broncodriver99

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2022, 05:48:29 AM »
There were quite a few reactors in the works here. Several under construction and quite a few approved and permitted. Somewhere around 2017-18 most of the new permitted reactors withdrew their applications and a couple that were under construction ceased construction.

I did see where two reactors are nearing completion, one in testing and the second at the same site scheduled for completion late next year. They will be the first nuclear plants the US has built in 30 years.

They did go way over budget and I think that coupled with the public demanding renewable solar and wind projects detered the other utilities from following through with the other planned reactors. Sad really, an investment could have been made in a reliable energy source for 50 years and instead those dollars are being invested in an at best 20 year source that is likely going to fall short and require constant investment to keep it operating. Not to mention reliance on the sun shining and the wind blowing.