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Author Topic: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!  (Read 19426 times)

Patch

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2006, 02:13:01 AM »
8-29 Kit Update.

Keep in mind, I am a Lister newbie, and have zero experience with these engines. It's taking me days to complete what Quinn did in a few hours. 10% finished and 90% more to do. Overall, I'm happy I got the kit. More opportunity to become familiar with the parts.

Photos at:
https://home.comcast.net/~jtfri/pics/Lister8-29/index.html

John



binnie

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2006, 02:38:43 AM »
Great picts john,
Nicely documented and glad you are doing this for us. Will encourage the rest of us, (me in particular) to get to work & clean up my engine.
Keep it coming, binnie
PS: I noted the 1lb difference in the flywheels. Wonder which side your will decide to put the lesser on and/or the heavier. Any idea ?
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

xyzer

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2006, 03:21:27 AM »
binnie,
Think positive! One is 1/2lb light and one a 1/2lb heavy!
Mine is supposed to be in on a truck tomowrrow......:)
Dave
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binnie

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2006, 03:41:51 AM »
Thanks for the rebuttle Dave,
Can't wait to hear it up & running. What size kit did you buy? or are the kits all 6/1s ? Are they a better price than the complete engine is/was? or running about the same? Shipping many pieces, many times must be an added cost or does everything actually come in one box  at one time, just not put together? Appologize for my ignorance, but would be nice to know. Did you get it directly from Joel or has he got them up on his site on ebay? I'll take a look see.
Keep us posted on the uncrating...& hope you sleep well tonight,binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

xyzer

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2006, 04:08:58 AM »
They are a shortblock kit.....the bottom is assembled it comes in a crate without the flywheels mounted....yes they come in different HP ratings. You buy different flywheels for the rated RPM. 650=6/hp 850=8hp...1000rpm=10hp...Don't quot me on that but that is the jest of it. Yes I got it from Joel....This is my second one...I'm addicicted...my winter project. My first one was less money but more work!....I like the way these were ordered.....
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Quinnf

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2006, 07:53:58 AM »
Guys, since there are several of you with these kits now, one thing to watch out for that I didn't notice until my report was sent to George and Joel was that the keyway in the flywheel might be as much as 0.015" and 0.020" wider than the gib key.  In India-assembled engines, that's no problem because they just slam the keys home with a sledge hammer, sometimes so tightly that they have to be drilled out to remove them.  The roller bearings aren't designed to take that kind of abuse, though I haven't heard of anyone who has ever found their bearing were damaged on first startup.

The gib keys need to be fitted to the flywheels so that the heads stand out about a finger's width from the hub.  With new gib keys that haven't been fitted, you should plan to spend some time filing the tapered (top) side of the gib key so that it goes that far into the hub.  If you just pound a new gib key home, you will only have about 3/4" of key holding the flywheels on which might allow them to come loose.  A lot of India assembled engines have 2" or more of space between the hub and the gib head which indicates the keys were not fitted carefully.

The way I fit my keys was to blacken the taper side of the keys with a black Sharpie marker, then slide the key into the flywheel hub until it stopped, tap the head of the key a couple of times lightly with a hammer, then pull the key out and note where the ink had been scraped off the tapered surface.  That locates the high spot on they key.  Then place the key in a vise and using a sharp mill file (buy a new one if you don't have a _sharp_ file) gently remove the high spot and a little more.  Then reapply the Sharpie ink, and check the fit again.  It will take some time but you will eventually see that the key will be sliding farther into the keyway with each adjustment and the point of contact should broaden.  If the contact point remains a small spot, use the flat narrow edge of your mill file to take any high spots off of the flywheel keyway.  It's slow going, but you'll be rewarded by a better fit.  I'm sure you could speed up the process by using a flap sanding wheel or even a grinding disk in a 4.5" angle grinder (20 bucks at Harbor Freight) instead of the file, but I used the traditional method.  

Now, with the gib key gently tapped into  position, stand facing the engine with one hand on each flywheel and rock the flywheels back and forth on the shaft in opposite directions.  If your engine is like both of mine, the flywheels will turn a little before coming to a hard stop against the gib keys.  If you have a dial caliper, you can measure the width of the keyway in the crankshaft and in the hub, and compare those figures with the width of the keyway.

In my Ashwameigh 6/1, the gib key was 0.009" narrower than the crankshaft keyway, and 0.020" narrower than the keyway in the hub, so as the engine ran, the flywheel was clanking back and forth on the key to the tune of 0.029" which made a horrible sound just like rod knock.  Drove me nuts trying to figure out where the noise was coming from.  After eliminating everything other possible cause, I finally found the problem was this excessive clearance, but only after a key fell out, nearly causing me to soil my skivvies as I watched the flywheel spinning on the crankshaft with no way to prevent it from walking off the end of the shaft.

The Beta Test engine was better, but still not perfect.  The keys fit very tightly in the crankshaft, so tight I had to insert them from the outboard end of the crankshaft and tap them into place with a hammer.  So far so good.  But the keyways in the flywheels were 0.017" wider than the gib key.  Just like my Ashwamegh.  

Now, here's the fix.  Two words:  Brass Shims.  Get some pieces of brass shim stock.  It's available from McMaster.com in any size you want.  Enter "brass shim" in the search box and hit enter and it will take you to a page with some choices.  Select Brass Shim Stock and you're there.  They have shim stock in many thicknesses.  Get two or three sizes for a few dollars each and you're golden, or at least brass-colored.








I found some 0.005", 0.010" and 0.015" shim stock in the bottom of a drawer which was close enough for my needs.  A few thousandths of slop won't matter.  I cut some narrow strips (appx 1/8" wide and 4" long) of brass using a pair of tin snips.  Heavy duty scissors work fine for the thinner stuff.  On the Ashwamegh, I slipped a piece of 0.005" brass between the left side of the key and the crankshaft keyway, and a piece of 0.015" brass between the right side of the key and the flywheel keyway.  So you see that the shims don't have to be a perfect fit.  As I tapped the key into the hub, at some point the key will draw the shim with it, and then as it tightens, the shim will stall out against the side of the keyway and the key will slide past the shim.  So you have to withdraw the key and shims a few times and play around with how far into the keyway the shim is placed before driving the key home.  The goal is to have the shim in contact with full length of the side of the key.  Make sure the key and keyways are clean and free from oil, too.  Some say you can dust the surfaces with cement lime (calcium hydroxide, not the kind that tastes so good floating in your beer in Mexican restaurants) or chalk to give the key something to bite into.  

Once I had the shims and key in and everything looked right, I positioned the engine so the opposite end of the crankshaft was touching a concrete wall, then I tapped the head of the key several times with a ball peen hammer until it was just snug.  No need to pound on it.  Just tap it gently until the key stops moving.  If the key is fit right, it should only move 1/8" or 1/4" before it's tight.  A poorly fit key will just keep going and never seem to tighten up which means you might be distorting the hub.

Happy assembling,

Quinn
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 03:17:25 PM by Quinnf »
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

aqmxv

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2006, 02:45:40 PM »
Many thanks, Quinn, for that helpful and detailed post!
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rpg52

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2006, 03:03:24 PM »
Quinn,

Just a FYI - after I found your beta tester report on George's site, all the photos past the one of the 3 jawed gear puller on the tappet were black.  I tried on two different computers with the same result.  Is it just me or does George need to be notified there is a problem?  Thanks in any case for the report and photos.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

bitsnpieces1

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2006, 03:05:50 PM »
  A little tiny note on quinnfs post.  Someone here posted about using Prussian Blue on a bearing.  What quinnf did is what prussian blue was originally for.  Paint the top of key with it, let it dry then use his technique.  The blue should be in a pretty thin layer, just enough to give complete cover and is very brittle when dry.  When you run the key home it rubs off and shows where the high spots are.  
  Of course a Sharpie is a lot cheaper and does the same job.  
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

hotater

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2006, 03:25:02 PM »
bitsandpieces---

I think you're talking about Dykem, not Prussian Blue.

Dykem is a thin, brittle red or blue lacquer used for laying out lines...it's useless for fitting.

Prussian Blue is a medium grease that never dries and is used to show high spots, usually in automotive work, for flatness.

Smoke is the preferred high spot marker for fitting steel parts.  Just wave the part to be fitted over a kerosene flame to darken it and do your fitting.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

aqmxv

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2006, 03:31:56 PM »
Setting up hypoid ring and pinions, the standard used to be white lead, because it gave better contrast than prussian blue on the phosphate coating on the teeth.  I've used sharpie with good results on a used gearset (with polished contact faces), but not sure what I'll come up with the next time I have to do a new gearset.  Sharpie won't show, and white lead in oil is pretty much not available.  Maybe oil-based artist's paint?
6/1 Metro IDI for home trigen

emerald

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2006, 03:44:17 PM »
Anyone care to post the price they paid for their kit engine?


Emerald

bbbuddy

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2006, 04:54:35 PM »
Quinn,

Just a FYI - after I found your beta tester report on George's site, all the photos past the one of the 3 jawed gear puller on the tappet were black.  I tried on two different computers with the same result.  Is it just me or does George need to be notified there is a problem?  Thanks in any case for the report and photos.
Ray

Yes, I have same problem, been there several times to see if it has changed.  Yesterday still could NOT see the pictures, as you note.
maddy

Quinnf

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2006, 06:03:26 PM »
What web browser are you using?  With IE the pics view fine.  With Firefox about half of them are black.  Is that what you're seeing/not seeing?

George is out in the boonies until the 8th so nothing can be done 'till then.  But I need to know specifically which browser you're using.  I have an ubergeek friend who might be able to figure out what's what.

Quinn
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 06:09:22 PM by Quinnf »
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

rpg52

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Re: Quinnf and Beta tester LISTEROID pix!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2006, 06:43:29 PM »
Hi Quinn,

Yeah, here at home I'm using Foxfire.  I thought I had checked it with IE at work, but may have been wrong.  Curious that some of the photos download fine and others not.  I don't claim any expertise at software though, I generally just cross my fingers and hope it works.  Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340