New guy with Powerline 2-20

[cjmac]

Hi,

I have been looking at a lot of posts on your site now for several months. I have learned lots. I thought it was time I posted something.
I have acquired a Powerline 2-20, in running condition, with a Marathon 4 pole generator head and all the associated parts for heat recovery from the water jackets and the exhaust. This system used an air starter (Gast 06) and ran on veggie oil after starting on diesel.
My plans for it are to be a fun toy to display running and an emergency power source. It is all dissembled for moving and it will be quite some time before it is back together.  In the several months that I have had it (to think about), I have identified a few things I hope to improve on. Most relate to starting it. It currently takes way too much air to start. The air motor may be larger displacement than is necessary. It uses a rubber drive wheel held against one of the flywheels by a pneumatic cylinder, very similar to systems I have seen on this site. I am thinking of replacing the air motor with a 12 volt starter motor and either keeping the rubber drive or using an automotive flex plate  and maybe modulating the starter voltage so it can accelerate the flywheels without breaking something. I also think about using the currently unused glow plugs and adding thermostats so it warms up properly (there was some soot).

Anyway, as time passes I will have lots of questions. Meanwhile, I though I would introduce myself and say a bit about my project.

Chris

[ajaffa1]

Hi Chris, welcome. I`m looking forward to your project. If you are going for an electric start system I would recommend a 24 volt starter motor, I think you might be pushing it with a regular 12 volt starter motor unless you gear it down a lot.
Can`t wait to see what you put together.

Bob

[dieselspanner]

Welcome Chris

There's loads of fun to be had with a Lister / iod!

Bob is right with gearing a 12v starter down, I did it by adding a standard Land Rover 2 1/4 litre diesel flywheel to the alternator, rather than the crankshaft, and mounting the starter motor on the bed.

It gives about a 2.5 to 1 reduction. There's more than enough grunt, it will throw the Lister over TDC even when the flywheel is wound forward to the compression stroke and the next time round it fires up and runs away.

in practice, when the fuel is cut and the motor winds to a stop it 'bounces 'of the final compression stroke and runs back a little giving the starter a chance to build up some momentum for the next start.

I don't think it would have any problem with a twin.

A useful side effect is that with the decompressor engaged it whips the engine around at a rate of knots that makes bleeding the injector a joy!

Cheers
Stef

[veggie]

Hi Chris,

Lots of help here and lots of knowledgeable people.
Just fire a question anytime.
And keep us posted as your project develops.
We like pictures 

[cjmac]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I think I have the picture part figured out.



We took off the flywheels and other parts and dragged the engine on two 4'x6"with a come along. Then lifted it with an engine hoist and drove the tracked dumper underneath it.

Once I had it home, I spent a little time cleaning it up.




I just brushed on some enamel paint for added protection for now.



There was significant soot and grime on everything. As I cleaned things I painted and sprayed with rust preventative.



The preview button didn't show the pictures. I will post this anyway and see if they show up there.

Chris

[cjmac]

Well, the pictures didn't work. They are on the Coppermine Gallery and I put the url for the image in between the delimiters created by the insert image button. I must have something set wrong somewhere.


I will try attaching an image directly from the "attachments and other options menu below.
 Once again, the preview button doesn't show the image.

I will go ahead and post to see what happens.

Chris

[cjmac]

Well, here are the links to the pictures

http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=16946

http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=16947

http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=16948

http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=16949

Chris

[Powdermonkey]

Just a question:  Given the ease to start a Listeroid (I start a twin every day), why not consider omitting the air or electric starter, and go back to manual? 

I'm not overly muscular, but enough.  I start a twin 30hp or a twin 16hp regularly, not to mention the 12/1...which starts with absolute ease.  As you slowly crank up speed, just take your time.  Get to the point where she's turning as fast as you can turn it.  Hit the fuel pump rack, and let it clink a couple times.  Throw the decompression lever, and off you go.  Ain't difficult.  Even my 50 year old wife can do it.  Skill?  A minor modicum.  But if you've got your spill timing correct, the engine should hit AND continue on the first gulp. 

[32 coupe]

I have a 6/1 and a 25/2 and start both by hand.
Both are tuned well enough that they start first "hit" every time and run great.
But I am in Florida and don't think I've ever started them below 50 degrees or so.

But at 68 and not overly stout I would like an electric start on the big one.

Looks like a nice project.

[cjmac]

Thanks for the input.

Starting by hand makes perfect sense and that is what the motor was designed for. I do have the crank and when I build the enclosure I will make sure there is room to stand there and use it. These are simple engines and there is a lot to be said for keeping the whole project simple. On the other hand, I have most of the parts on hand to do something like BruceM did with the air starter and air cylinders for compression release. I have been looking through his posts with great interest.

One of the reasons for getting the engine was to preserve it. I like old engines and I originally thought I would just start it up once in a while to show it off. Then, I thought it would be better to have it do something useful (that is why engines are built). Hence, I got the generator that was with it with the idea that it could be used as a backup power system. There was a storm last Saturday and the power was out for 21 hours, so there is a demonstrated need for this.

I'm in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada) so it is not cold like Calgary or Edmonton, but it is not warm like Florida. There was (rare) snow last night.  To make this easier to start (in the cold), I have considered adding a peel and stick oil pan heater and an inline water heater. (these would be turned on while the power is still on but at risk of going off). It has glow plugs that were not being used, so I would hook them up. I have looked at inlet air heaters. Maybe one of those would help with starting.

So, I guess if I'm being honest with myself, I want to play around with this engine rather than "Preserve" it. Using a microcontroller and air cylinders to control the decompression is something I would have fun with.

I do have a 5kW diesel genset and if I was really after sensible reliable power, I have a Kubota D722 stuffed away somewhere. (It think it is a D722, 3 cylinders was originally in a reefer trailer). That would probably be a better match for the 18kW generator head I got with the Listeroid.  But, the Listeroid is much more rugged and you can start it by hand so maybe it is the "sensible reliable power".

When I'm in a position to bolt all the main components to the base, I will start it by hand and start really learning about it instead of dreaming about it. I did see it running several years ago and I want it to run again.

So, I'm keeping my options open. It makes sense to hand start it but I would have fun playing around with other starting and control systems. I have a few other projects that will be competing for my time. One of the major ones is a 1928 Model A. Model A and B engines have things in common with the Lister engines (pretty similar oiling system).

I think being in my shop working on a Model A while the power is generated by the Listeroid would be neat.

Chris