Author Topic: Fuel System question  (Read 5775 times)

BruceM

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Fuel System question
« on: December 31, 2005, 06:10:22 AM »
I'm about to install my Metro Lister 6/1 in a new generator shed and need some fuel system advice.

I was thinking of running the injector overflow line all the way back to the (proposed) 50 gallon drum fuel tank;  this would seem to avoid air injection into the fuel line which would make fuel line bleeding less of a chore when changing fuel filters, etc.

Any words of wisdom regarding using 50 gallon drums for gravity fuel tanks?

Thanks!
Bruce McCreary
Snowflake, AZ

hotater

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2005, 02:52:25 PM »
  Drums make good tanks if you have a ladder to climb to re-fill it.. :o

I ran the return line to the top of the fuel filter instead of all the way back to the tank.  It makes a shorter run and it helps pre-heat the fuel a little in the winter time.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Joe

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2005, 03:07:36 PM »
Hi Bruce,
I’m in the early stages of setting up a 6/1-ST5 and it sounds as if we are (again) dealing with a lot of the same components and questions.  I’ve collected a lot of parts and am now in the process of putting them together.  

I also have a number of questions and would like to hear a few opinions on fuel set-ups.  
Storage in the shed to keep moisture out and temperature swings to a minimum? Or outside covered storage to make more room in the shed.  (I dealing with a 275 gal home heating oil tank.) Plumb it as Bruce is thinking with over flow back to the big tank? Then again is a direct connection to a big tank not a good idea…would hate to fatigue that one critical connection at the engine and end up spilling a whole lot of fuel. Keep the big tank as standalone and filter it separately?  Transfer fuel 8-10 gallons at a time as needed.

What is the conventional wisdom on fuel storage/filtering/usage?


Joe


Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

n2toh

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2005, 03:53:47 PM »
Hi Bruce,
I’m in the early stages of setting up a 6/1-ST5 and it sounds as if we are (again) dealing with a lot of the same components and questions.  I’ve collected a lot of parts and am now in the process of putting them together.  

I also have a number of questions and would like to hear a few opinions on fuel set-ups.  
Storage in the shed to keep moisture out and temperature swings to a minimum? Or outside covered storage to make more room in the shed.  (I dealing with a 275 gal home heating oil tank.) Plumb it as Bruce is thinking with over flow back to the big tank? Then again is a direct connection to a big tank not a good idea…would hate to fatigue that one critical connection at the engine and end up spilling a whole lot of fuel. Keep the big tank as standalone and filter it separately?  Transfer fuel 8-10 gallons at a time as needed.

What is the conventional wisdom on fuel storage/filtering/usage?


Joe




there are simple ways to stop that kind of spill, one way is to put a 120V solonoid at the 275 gal tank and power it from the gen gead. If the feeder hose breaks and the engine stops than the soloniod will close the fuel supply.
About 60 years is all it takes to make science fiction a reality.

hotater

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2005, 04:35:58 PM »
Fueling is a hassle here, too.

I have a 2000 gallon above ground tank that's plumbed for the big gensets.  The Lister has it's own nine gallon (old propane) tank that I re-fill with jerry cans.
   I have about 60 gallons worth of fuel cans, so I pick a nice day and siphon from the big tank into the smaller ones for the Lister.  I add a couple ounces of fuel suppliment at each Lister fill-up, too.  I've never had any problems at all with moisture or debris in the engine but catch a lot in the filters.

I've just gotten, but not yet picked up, a 300 gallon 'tower tank' for home heating use.  I'm going to place it near the big 30Kw gensets and run the return line from them to the 300 gallon tank.  That'll give me storage for 'polished' fuel that's easier to get to.

I LIKE the solenoid idea...
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

BruceM

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2005, 05:18:02 PM »
Good questions, Joe.  I have similar concerns.  I like the idea of a fuel shut off (solenoid or ??) at the tank.  I'm leaning towards a 50 gallon tank in the shed, as my shed is well insulated and has some passive solar gain from a south window, so I may be able to use biodiesel all year.

Hotater-  have you had air bleed issues running the injector overflow line to the fuel filter, or do you think the air just stays up near the injector?  My Mico filter doesn't have the fitting, I'd have to add a tee in the fuel line going into the filter.  I just wonder about the air in the injector overflow line adding bubbles into the fuel filter.

For those with weeping fuel leaks at the Injection Pump-  be warned that besides my own cracked banjo bolt, George B has found others manufactured with this flaw.  It's a hair line crack that runs full length, through the thread all the way to the bolt head.  Another characteristic of this problem- only a drip of fuel at the IP, but hard starting when the engine has not been run for a few days.  (Tiny bit of aiir in line at IP.)  See my photo at the coppermine:     http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-58

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year,
Bruce McCreary
Metro Lister 6/1
Snowflake, AZ

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2005, 05:26:08 PM »
Safe practice is to have a fuel 'day' tank, usually a 6 gallon outboard tank. If you had a fuel leak, you would have less than 6 gallons to clean up, and a potential fire would be limited. You should never let the engine run more than a couple of hours without 'making a round' on it for safety reasons. You should shut the engine off and check the oil once each day, so top off the fuel at the same time. You can fill it from the storage tank(s) by gravity, pump or container, depending on how fancy your power plant is.
 The injector return should go back to the tank to reduce the chance of air bubbles in the fuel injector pumps, although some people run the return into the fuel supply line without problems.
The outboard tank comes with a primer squeeze bulb in the fuel line that can be very handy for priming (removing air from) the injectors. It has a carry handle like luggage,a fuel gauge, a good cap with a closable vent and can be taken in a car to the filling station. They are cheap at the sporting goods / boating store, better at yard sales... :D
Your large fuel storage tank(s) are great places to mix your favorite brew of biodiesel, veggie oil, old crankcase drippings etc.. Maybe one tank of clean diesel, and a tank for 'experimental fuel'. Lots of fuel filters is good.
Emergency fuel shut off valves (solonoid or manual) are good.
Fire detection, low oil pressure, and high jacket water temp shutdowns are good. They can be connected to the fuel solonoid as well as shutting down the fuel injector rack.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

BruceM

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2005, 07:03:52 PM »
Good thoughts and suggestions, Shipchief. I'll have to rethink tank size.

Another question:  What clear(ish) tubing is compatible with motor oil, and what is compatible with diesel and biodiesel?  Applications-  clear tube from sump with dust cap to act as oil level sight/filler, clear tube for fuel tank sight guage.  HDPE is compatible, I believe, though not too clear.  What about vinyl tube?  Others, sources?

Another fuel question:  I'd like to add a water separator bowl to the fuel tank.  One possibility- tee off the bottom, straight down, a short section of clear tube with bleed valve at the end to drain off water, fuel to engine through the 90 degee joint.  But I'm hoping shipchief or someone can point me to an off the shelf water separator.

Bruce

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2005, 07:27:51 PM »
A sight glass on the oil sump needs to be vented to the crankcase or the pressure fluctuations will pump oil out the sight glass vent.
For a quicky, run the sight glass tubeing from the oil drain to the bolt hole over the cam bushing on the opposite side of the engine from the governor drive. You should get a reliable indication of the oil level on a non oil pump single.
RACOR makes diesel fuel filters that have a water trap bottom that is clear, and has a drain. Very popular with boaters. Or just tilt that outboard fuel tank so water will flow away from the fuel pickup. before you refill the tank tilt it so any water will flow in view of the filler neck, then suck it out with a turkey baster. Simple is good. :)
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

hotater

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Re: Fuel System question
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 03:23:19 AM »
I never thought about air bubbles in the fuel....I saw the mini-Petters ran it that way by design and figured it saved plumbing.   :D

Re-  clear oil and fuel lines.....  I used poly tubing but it quickly became opaque.  I've now got a harder, slightly 'frosty', tubing for a fuel guage that's working very well.

My draw point is an inch above the bottom of a horizonal nine gallon propane tank.  On the other end of the tank I have a drain with a T in it that the fuel level tube ties into and runs up the end of the tank.  I can see fuel (and water if present) in the clear 'guage'  below the "Empty" line.
  The drain has a valve AND a cap.  To check for and drain water, I remove the cap and open the drain slightly.  I catch the first little bit in a small jar so I can look at it and drain more if needed.  So-far I've had no problems with water, but there is debris being caught and held in the terry cloth 'filter' held to the bottom of the tank by magnets.

7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.