Author Topic: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?  (Read 458 times)

dkmc

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Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« on: October 27, 2021, 11:13:01 PM »

It ain't pretty...
Found this, seller was asking $600 said he'd take $550. I saw it run, started right up with the electric starter.
He knows nothing about the ST head, wires are disconnected. Data tag is unreadable except for 2000 which may
be the year built. Is there a stamped model/ serial number someplace?

Worth the money?

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2021, 12:46:34 AM »
It looks like an ST-7.5 head. It looks like itís been outdoors for some time. It will probably need new bearings and brushes. I would see if the generator head works.

If itís been rained and snowed on the generator head probably needs to be rewound. Thatís if the rotor and stator laminates are still good.
Might be cheaper to purchase a replacement ST head.

I think $550.00 is too much of an asking price. It seems like it was not taken care of very well.


I believe your in the North East. Check for freeze cracks in the block around the cylinder.

dkmc

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2021, 01:31:17 AM »

Also meant to ask, is there a manual available online for these engines?

mobile_bob

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2021, 03:27:25 AM »
i wouldn't give any value for the st head, it is an st8 which is really an st7.5
if it works or can be made to work economically then it is a bonus, but don't add value for it in the purchase price.

the frame and pulley maybe 50 bucks

the engine? hmmmm, given the current market and there really aren't any available
for sale, at least yet, that value is between the buyer and seller.

if it were me and i really was in need of the unit, i would offer no more than 500 cash money, "if" the engine started up from cold, and not after having been running before you got there.

if it started from cold, i would maybe go 500 for the unit, if it was warm when you got there you really have no idea what he had to do to get it running. he may have needed to give it a half can of ether to get it going.

a hard starting engine is going to need work, and that takes the value down to maybe about half his asking or around 250 bucks.

as for a manual, i am not sure about an online manual, but i think i have one i can copy and send you, just would take a bit to find it.  i have several, just finding one is all we need.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

mobile_bob

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2021, 03:42:01 AM »
+1 for hwew' comment about checking for freeze cracks, fill it with water and check for leaks, cracks etc.

i am also concerned about the condition of the aircleaner in the picture, why is it all apart? how long has it been open?  has it been stored under cover? looks like it has been fending for itself out in the elements, and if the aircleaner has been left open? dirt? water, bugs, leaves, did i say dirt and water?

if the intake valve was closed then the cylinder was probably saved, but how much rust on the valve stem, and when he rolled it over, how much dirt and crap was ingested on the first startup.

the more i look at it, and the apparent poor condition from the elements, someone really didn't care much for this generator, and a dead generator really isn't a generator is it?

500 bucks is a gamble that i wouldn't take, not unless i was prepared to spend the time, and money to go through and overhaul the engine, and maybe also replace the generator head, and even then the frame is a light duty portable designed for intermittent use.  probably just what this poor thing did,  run for several hours of power outage, then left to fend for itself, wash/rinse/repeat until one day it either didn't want to start (probably when the aircleaner was taken apart) or the generator quit (probably when the control box was disassembled.  then they just went for a beer and a trip to town to buy a cheap gas generator and this thing was left where it sat.

i bet i am more right than wrong on this one, and the more i think about it, 250 bucks is a good cash offer.

he ain't gonna get more from anyone else!  there aren't that many of us out their looking for these things, and even fewer than are looking that have the ability to make it work again. 

offer him 250 cash, leave your number and walk away, tell him you have to go look at another one that has been kept under cover and works.

he will either stop you and take the offer, or he will be calling you shortly.

btw, take you wife with you, start with small talk, ask if he has a wife, get her involved!

to most wives that rusty pos?  hell ya babe we are gonna take his 250 bucks!

:)
bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2021, 04:05:47 AM »
Oh, while checking for freeze cracks on the outside when filled with water, itís also good to check the oil in the crankcase for water.

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2021, 04:58:24 AM »

Also meant to ask, is there a manual available online for these engines?

What engine engine model is it?

S-195, S-1100, Ö?

Here is a Changfa S-195 manual on line.
http://dinatek.ec/wp-content/uploads/pdf/manual/MC1-Manual-Operacion-Changfa-1100-195.pdf

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2021, 01:55:12 PM »
Another thought, Masters Farm Supply based in Florida bought out all of Hardy Diesels parts stock of the Changfa / Chang-Chai type engines. They might be able to help you with a manual, and parts.

https://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=3355.0

dkmc

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2021, 02:16:00 PM »

Thanks, I'll check that out. The PDF you linked is generally helpful enough. The engine seems to run fine as demonstrated by the seller. As far as $250 goes, if someone can actually buy something similar to this for that price, I hope they post their score on this forum, it will be a treat to see.


Another thought, Masters Farm Supply based in Florida bought out all of Hardy Diesels parts stock of the Changfa / Chang-Chai type engines. They might be able to help you with a manual, and parts.

https://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=3355.0

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2021, 02:44:06 PM »
They can be found, when I do find them I post them on microcogen.

Here is where stuff is posted:
https://www.microcogen.info/index.php?board=66.0

I do periodically go in and remove items that have been sold or that are no longer available.

dkmc

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2021, 02:54:13 PM »

Yes, I am a member. I see parts listed for sale, no running engines with questionable generators on a trailer for $250. Have there been such things on the list before?  I'm just curious.

They can be found, when I do find them I post them on microcogen.

Here is where stuff is posted:
https://www.microcogen.info/index.php?board=66.0

I do periodically go in and remove items that have been sold or that are no longer available.

guest18

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2021, 03:05:41 PM »
Yes,
When I find them, I post them.

It takes a fair amount of effort to keep the Hardware for sale by NON members up to date.  Iíve been busy and lately I have not had much time to search the web for items. Iím working on getting back to do some more searching. But, not in the capacity I once was.

 Members, including myself, post items there so members have first shot at the items. Once members are logged in the section only becomes visible. This section has been made because the items posted in the original for sale section weíre getting picked up by non-members. Members that could of used the item were not given a chance to purchase the posted items because non members were beating the members to the sale. We decided to do something to fix it so only members can see the items. In turn, quite a few members were able to pick up great deals that would of normally been picked dry by others. What brought this into fruition was the time Surplus Center was selling new half liter, twin cylinder, Cat/Perkins dieselís for I think it was $599.00. That was a sale of a lifetime. And by creating the Hardware for sale by NON members it helped a few members that were interested in them to purchase one.

Now days with all the search engines on the internet the Hardware for sale by NON members is less effective. But, every bit helps.

mobile_bob

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2021, 09:51:33 PM »
dkmc

upon rereading this thread, it appears to me, that possibly you already had the thing bought and hauled home before you posted the questions??

after rereading and looking at the "big" picture i see the unit strapped down to a trailer, which leads me to think maybe it was either ready to come home with you, or already arrived?

had we known that fact, we might have responded in a much different way.

i for one posted what i said based on trying to help you as a prospective buyer go into it with open eyes. and also get you the best deal possible.

so now that you have it, maybe we can help you get it sorted out and doing what it is you want it to do.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

dkmc

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2021, 02:03:38 AM »
Finally earlier this week, the seller got it off his trailer, and called so I could pick it up.
And today, 5 days later I got to tinker a bit and generate more questions.

There are some things that make me suspicious the engine has not been used much. The oil was a butterscotch color and the sump filled to the 'add' mark. Does this sound like the way they come when new? Not a spec of dirt in the fuel filter housing. After I changed the oil and worked the air out of the fuel system I managed to get it to run. It runs nice, and restarts nice now that the air is purged. Added some 50/50 mix to the hopper and no sign of cracks or coolant leaking or getting into the crankcase so I guess there's no freeze damage. PS the oil drain plug was finger tight.

Questions:
As I said the data tag is worn away and unreadable, but....On a small decal near the fuel cap, are these numbers
XK06-105  1220.  A serial number perhaps? Or model number?

Also, I've attached a pic, what is the function of these 2 doo-dads? One on left has a spring under the threaded cap, and a 2 screw mount flange. One on the right has a nut that seems to turn but not round & round and just one screw to hold it to the engine.  I don't have a manual for this engine, it's for a similar one. Not very informative.
TIA

Tomorrow, the ST head. Perhaps I can measure the brush length, and if someone can tell me the length of new brushes, we might all get an idea as to the hours of run time this setup has endured.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 02:09:59 AM by dkmc »

mobile_bob

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Re: Chang-chai and ST head, deal? Or no deal?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2021, 02:57:55 AM »
i am not sure about those two things in the picture, but my guess is they are a fuel stop setting and a fulcrum setting for the governor, actually they likely both work with the governor.   as such i would "not" mess with either of them.

especially without knowing more about them, and having a manual in hand for the engine.

sounds like you got a good runner! 

now the brushes,  again i don't know the length they were as new
but st heads are famous for one brush wearing faster than the other, same for the slip rings... so if both brush sets are about the same length, and the slip rings look about the same it is likely the thing doesn't have a lot of runtime hours on it.

and i wouldn't change the brushes unless they are running short enough to look like the springs are close to limit or contact the slip rings.

do you know if it was stored under cover?  if so that would be a plus.

i would clean up the slip rings and see if you can get it to generate some power, maybe a 100 watt light bulb to start with.

if you can get it to make power, and you see signs of water ingress, don't run it for long or power much of a load.  i would then take it all apart, have the stator and rotor tested for shorts, and if they test ok, maybe have them baked dry, vacuum dipped and baked to set the varnish.  a good motor shop could advise you on that.

you just want to make sure that the thing is clean, dry, and has enough varnish to set the windings, and protect or insulate as well as you can.  if you take it all apart and take the stator and rotor in for testing and bake/dip/bake... it shouldn't cost too much, the motor guy could tell you if it would be worth doing or not.

then either replace or repack the brgs and reassemble, i would replace the brgs, but that is up to you.

it might have a failed rectifier, which is not uncommon, and easily upgraded for not much money.

it is really so hard to diagnose or advise from pictures, pictures can make things either look dramatically better or worse that what they really are in person.

my bet is the old girl doesn't have a lot of hours on the unit, and it might well be the rectifier gave up and that is why the generator box was apart and the thing sat around unused up till you became the proud new papa and brought it home.

i am not sure if the engine is a s195 or an s1100, the s1100 being a bit bigger of course.

if you have an 1100, you did well, i wish i had scored one preban,  iirc the 1100's were direct injected and used a ball brg on the flywheel side of the crankshaft to carry the load,  common for an 1100, less common on the 195's

sounds like you got the start of a good project.
and in my opinion once you go changfa type your hooked for life.

(me) "my name is bob, and i am a changfa addict"

(group) "hi bob!"

:)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info