Author Topic: CS 6/1 repair?  (Read 19055 times)

Billy

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CS 6/1 repair?
« on: August 20, 2006, 11:52:16 AM »
Just found this forum, and wonder if anyone can advise if its possible to repair a cracked cylinder block on Lister CS 6/1? Been told by an engineer I know that it may be possible to braze this, but wonder if there is any other way to do it as I have no access to brazing equipment.

TIA

Bill

GuyFawkes

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2006, 12:14:48 PM »
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2006, 12:25:53 PM »
Whoops...

I have just realised "Billy" is Chris Stevens.

He has an axe to grind as I am suing him for defamation etc.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/chris.htm

Text from that site

There are some people so 'wrapped up' in the Internet that they create amazing fantasies whereby they see themselves as something that they're not. What continues to amaze most rational people, however, is that a grown adult can spend SO much time online simply for the purpose of disrupting others' lives.

Such is the story of Chris Stevens from England....

When he first came to our attention, Mr. Stevens had been posting under various aliases in a bizarre mixture of UK local newsgroups (including, in particular, uk.local.isle-of-wight). At some point, he apparently decided that the Freemasons would be fun to harass as well.

Seemingly obsessed with US politics, his rants used dozens of different online pseudonyms although why he vented his spleen on newsgroups is still a mystery. Most Masons ignore these puerile rants and often filth-filled screeds as it became clear that what he expected was agreement with his often bizarre political opinions. Angered in the extreme that Masons wouldn't engage in such discussions with him, he continued his rants and harassment for months on end. As often happens online, though, he has since vanished from the scene. It would be good to think that such persons might have matured and/or realized that the source of their problems is not Freemasons but, rather, themselves. Sadly, though, troubled minds are not easily fixed.

Through some tracking of his online posting history via the Google search engine, it was revealed that Mr. Stevens wasn't simply a teen-ager with raging testosterone. Rather, he was 50+ year old trans-gendered male who was simultaneously using newsgroup postings to solicit women and couples to pose for his supposedly new digi-cam. In addition, while in alt.freemasonry, he went to great length to create the fantasy of his being a wheel-chair bound cripple to explain why the only thing he'd ever done to support his anti-US /anti-war rhetoric was to WATCH a protest march in London. In fact, he belligerently castigated those who questioned his 'sincerity' in using such a ruse. His facade was debunked when it was observed that he had also been posting in auto groups about various sports cars....

Why is Mr. Stevens' personal life relevant to this exposé?  Because, simply, it exhibits a pattern of lies and obfuscation that should cause anyone to realize why his or similar ranting condemnation of Masons or Masonry is preposterous. Both online and off, these folks seem to exhibit a pattern of disruptive and (it could be argued by reasonable people) inappropriate behavior designed to deliberately cause conflict and garner attention. A few might contend that reference to Mr. Stevens' personal life is nothing more than an 'ad hominem' attack ostensibly because his lifestyle is so vastly different than most - and causes a judgment of this individual as reprehensible. We believe that any such 'concerns' ignore reality. Many seem to think that online activities come with a license to aggrieve others: it's clear that such behavior, in this case in particular, is not limited to Chris' online 'life' only!

Some of the 'identities' used by Mr. Stevens (who revealed his real name in a direct e-mail to this site's author at the outset of his ranting) include the following (from about October, 2002 through the Spring of 2003):

 "Don få Rune Våge Jokkmokker" <DoD@darkangellcd.org>
"Officer" <wrote>
"Lord Councellor Arch Druid" <neo_nero_zero@yahoo.com>
"Draco The Elder" <webZweSpin@ya.net>
"¤ Om-Âí-JuJuDÖ ¤" <wrearh@wrearh-borg.org>
"Fr:.O:.M:." <j_gm_rubino@yahoo.com>
"J_GM_Rubino" <J_GM_Rubino@msn.com>
"Jason Michael Rubino" <j_gm_rubino@yahoo.com>
"William" <aegis_123@hotmail.com>
seeds@dark.light(The Seed Sower)
ways_4@hotmail.com (The Seed Sower)
"Jean-François D." <io_star@hotmail.com>

In the Fall of 2004, Mr. Stevens adopted the nom du jour of "Norwood Holden" and, after allowing him to continue his charade for several weeks, we confronted him with his 'real' identity. Thereafter he became much more acerbic, obviously upset that his little charade was exposed. Entering 2005, the parade of false identities continued without ceasing. Whether it was pretending to be an Indian immigrant to England (including a pitiful mocking caricature of spoken language) or ranting about how the United States caused the tsunami which wreaked death and destruction in the Indian Ocean region, this individual is not dissimilar to many who rant and rave against Masons and Masonry.

It should also be noted that in March, 2003, Mr. Stevens threatened the life of both a Mason in San Diego and our family. His internet accounts were immediately shut down in light of this egregious behavior but, sadly, such threats are never punished to the extent appropriate and Mr. Stevens continued to bait, demean and threaten Freemasonry and Freemasons.

It seems to go without saying that pretending to be a cripple in order to get someone to debate politics is obviously the behavior of someone with a VERY twisted mind - yet another addition to the ranks of anti-Masons!

"Norwood's" friend "Marta"

There are LOTS of gullible people in this world but none more so, it seems, than the internet identity who claims her real name is "Marta".

Talk about fantasies: "Marta" claimed to have been following the alt.freemasonry newsgroup for years and in the Fall of 2004 made this absurd statement:

    "My God, it is horrifying! What I remember from reading this ng and Sep 11 is there was ominous silence here, not even one post came into this ng where I was several hours prior to Sep 11. It was like someone was holding his breath. There was one coded message one or two days before. Then silence...terrible silence....and 'booom' Sept 11..next day..."

As is typical with 'trolls', it's simple lies and fantasy. Was she lying when she reported in 2003 that she had JUST THEN come to alt.freemasonry to do some "research" or did she simply forget her prior visit during the horrific events of 9/11? And, of course, there's the pesky little fact that 697 messages were recorded by Google between 7 September 2001 and 11 September 2001 as appearing on alt.freemasonry? In fact, for YEARS we have had a comment here on our site about the 46 nearly identical ones written by Mike Restivo during the hours of the attack.

In 2004, this individual admitted using the identities of wyka, beaver folk, Princessa, neutral observer, Andrew, Sinner, lovetohear, curious, and allergic but yet decries Masons for being dishonest. Her list of bizarre claims is now near legendary and range from posts about the domination of her (then) city by Masons because there were delivery trucks that had "Bros." written on them there {yes, you read that correctly: if a truck says "Smith Bros.", they're Masons sending subtle messages to everyone that they control everything!} on through assertions that the Masons had discovered her true identity and caused telemarketers to start calling her on the telephone asking personal questions. Claiming to be a doctor, she was unable to answer basic medical questions propounded to her by another Mason on the newsgroup - things even a high school biology student should have been able to respond to without hesitation. She claimed that she'd need to look it up in her books, then packed for a supposed departure to Europe.

The bizarre behavior continued with "Michel and Sophi" appearing to tell everyone that Marta had to rush off to take care of her hospitalized son and that they were house-sitting and replying to messages on her behalf. Sometimes feigning ignorance of the newsgroup's past history and sometimes only minutes later showing that they had FAR more background information than they revealed, they would do a 'tag-team' performance claiming that it was first one and then the other (both ALSO doctors, they claimed) who were answering. They insulted and berated practically anyone/everyone who dared to suggest that this was just another 'nym' silliness. The thinly-veiled facade was only abandoned several months later in mid-April, 2005. "Marta" as of Fall, 2005 was using - strangely enough - the "Michel & Sophi" e-mail address and the two formerly SO involved personages simply disappeared. How bizarre. Later it appears that she saw this page and simply abandoned the "Michel and Sophi" foolishness and return to her "Beaverfolk" pseudonym.

Why does someone need more than eight different guises? "Marta" has an answer for it: she's afraid of Masons - but, of course, that foolishness was created 'on the fly' as Masons began to easily identify the written affectation she has adopted, supposedly reflecting her 'European' heritage. Because this site's author has been primarily responsible for identifying her foolishness, she attempts to discredit him and makes incorrect and unsubstantiated contentions on a regular basis. Here, admitting her duplicity, is a minor example and, as is SO very typical for alt.freemasonry posters, a promise that they're leaving simply means that they're going to change their identity and come back again - as "Marta" has proven often.

"Marta" feigns being aggrieved by being mentioned here and vows that she will never leave the alt.freemasonry venue as long as this continues. This, of course, ignores the reality that no one would know her anywhere if she bit them on the leg - and that in the United States' 1990 census, there were some 73,944 others with the name "Marta". She'll claim it's irrelevant since she's supposedly in Canada though: Poor "Marta"....

In addition to her ability to twist anyone's simple statements into a Gordian knot, we'd also note that this individual has had the remarkable ability to totally ignore the egregious behavior of "Norwood Holden" when he engaged in spewing profanity and to further incite, she engaged in ridiculous irrelevant casual personal conversation with him. She has also 'warned' others that alt.freemasonry was "HER" newgroup....

Why would a supposedly retired self-claimed doctor spend her time harassing and haranguing Freemasons, the folks who ostensibly are harassing her and who, she claims, might have been responsible for kidnapping her friend's dog [more on that later]? Aren't there more important things in life? Apparently for 'Marta', Chris, and a handful of others, the answer is "no".
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Billy

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2006, 12:56:14 PM »
Jesus............all I asked for was some advice on repairing my engine! Not got a clue what "Guy Fawkes" is on about, but having had a quick read of his web pages, it seems like he has lost some sort of legal action to the person he is attacking.

Bill

GuyFawkes

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2006, 01:08:32 PM »
autosuggestion54@yahoo.co.uk that's you ken / gaspode / chris whatever nym you are this week, no mistake.

You lie, badly, as usual.

Not getting into this shit here with you, consider yourself killfiled.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Billy

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2006, 01:19:14 PM »
I didnt think I had broken any forum rules, by asking a question on here. Shame you seem to have me confused with someone else, as the repair job you have done on your engine looks first rate, and I would have liked to get some advice from you regards doing mine.

Bill

hotater

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2006, 03:29:55 PM »
Billy--

If you're in the UK I think there are some newly manufactured cylinders with the original head bolt design already in the country.  That would be the best way to 'repair' your engine, in my opinion.

Guy and I have varying opinions on welding cast iron.....I don't think it's worth the trouble unless you go to the time and expense and risk of extensive pre-heat, clean, butter, TIG, stress relieve, post heat and finish, but on a cylinder his way looks to work....but longevity is still undertermined.  So are introduced stresses that *could* become a problem with heat and cooling cycles.

If ya'll just HAVE to fight, pick another forum unless you agree to a dual at dawn with the weapons being thrown SOM  flywheels.  Then sell tickets.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Billy

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2006, 03:39:54 PM »
Thanks for your advice Hoteater.............was told something along very similiar lines by an engineer friend of mine. Have you any further details regarding the new cylinders you mentioned? As to fighting thats not something that interests me in the slightest, and I will ignore any further comments from "Guy Fawkes" as he does seem to be a bit of a troublemaker.

Thanks

Bill

hotater

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2006, 03:45:51 PM »
Billy--

Go to the "Lister Market Place" forum and ask for 'seven bolt cylinders to fit original Lister'.  I can't remember who posted the description of those but I'm sure it was a UK post.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

rcavictim

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2006, 04:15:17 PM »
In looking at the photo example of a repair given by Guy Fawkes it seems to me that wouldnt it make more sense and a lot less work to cut say a piece of 1/8th or 3/16ths inch mild steel plate to fit the hole and either weld it to the block or braze it as a large patch?  In fact for one without the welding gear metal epoxy like JB Weld could be used as the heat is not excessive here.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 04:40:52 PM by rcavictim »
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- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
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-Want Lister 6/1
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GuyFawkes

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2006, 04:23:42 PM »
Billy--

Guy and I have varying opinions on welding cast iron.....I don't think it's worth the trouble unless you go to the time and expense and risk of extensive pre-heat, clean, butter, TIG, stress relieve, post heat and finish, but on a cylinder his way looks to work....but longevity is still undertermined.  So are introduced stresses that *could* become a problem with heat and cooling cycles.

His name ain't billy, it's chris, or something else when he is wearing drag and appearing on tv game shows, and he owns and operates a beehive industrial unit trading as AWS Welding, though he'd never heard of Stubs (a UK brand of high nickel rods very well known here for use on cast iron) and doesn't seem to know much apart from MiG.

His hobbies include pretending he is 14, or in a wheelchair, or female, or expert at whatever it is, and anyone who disagrees with him sooner or later gets accused of being a child molester amidst various veiled and not so veiled threats about we know where you live etc.

Do a google groups search for "ken" etc http://groups.google.co.uk/groups/profile?enc_user=hDaPmxIAAAAnZz6nDtTuVNgnJmOC9hfyKcY_vu8gkTEb4G6FWFb2EA&hl=en

He is here for _NO_ reason other than to continue a 2 year long online vendetta against myself, he has no interest of any kind in stationary engine, listers, listeroids, co-gen or anything else.

I have currently unsubscribed from all my usual usenet groups simply because he and his associates follow me everywhere and my membership of a usenet newsgroup meant everyone else had to suffer, http is different, it's easy to ban people.

Differences of opinion aside, make no mistake, he is not just someone who may have a different opinion than you or I or someone else, he is pure poison. I don't sue individuals over what they publish on usenet for a hobby or a passtime, but only because they won't have it any other way.

This is a "man" who has spent the past 2 years trying to brand me a known and convicted paedophile, someone who burgles old ladies while they are in hospital, someone who beats up on women, someone who is a fraud, a crook, a thief, mentally ill, you name it.

Mr Stevens and I have future dealings in the UK Courts, I'm content to let it stay there, but by even acknowledging his existence and engaging in dialogue your are giving him what he craves, do that and he will spawn a slew of false identities via remailers and proxies to mask his (currently OneTel) ISP assigned IP address and turn this forum into a battlefield.

Now that he is here me simply shutting up won't make him go away, he will just assume, as he and his associates have on usenet, that I am hiding or myself posting using a different identity, at which point anyone who disagrees with him will be accused of being me, and the carnage will continue.

When the UK Courts are through with him he will face a simple choice, stay away from the net or go to prison, until then as individuals I suggest you all excercise extreme caution and scepticism.

==================

Yes, I am not a saint, I can be a cranky opinionated bastard, but there ain't no malice in it. I'm quite happy to label someone as someone who I will never see eye to eye with and agree to disagree and get on with life.

Case in point, welding cast iron, I think if we had an hour or two face to face to sit down and discuss it there'd be little dispute, all we see here is focusing on one particular item of cast iron and one particular method which I've done and you haven't, I think if you ever had the opportunity to try it my way on the few things I would do it to and physically had the metal there to test afterwards you'd say "OK it works"

Until such time I'll suggest people do it one way and you'll suggest another, and they will do whichever suits them, and all of that is fine with me.

This isn't I'm right and hotater is wrong, this is I'm right and I'd like hotater to have the opportunity to try it for himself and draw his own conclusions, and this most certainly is not I'm right and no other way can possibly be right so every way that is not my way must be wrong.

There's lots of ways of doing a job, often there is more than one right way, and the one you choose will be job specific.

I _used_ to be very tight about how you could weld cast iron, and my ways of acceptable methods echoed yours 100%, but when I was being trained there wasn't such things as MiG, Plasma cutters, CNC, and a shed load of other things.

So when it came to MY cast iron barrel needing a repair I was faced with...

1/ a new technology since my training, namely MiG, which I had used in the past on things like manifolds very successfully.
2/ not having my own workshops, or running one I could do a "homer" like this in.
3/ my own kit, not a customers

ALL my training was telling me it wouldn't work, or it would be a crap job.

_intellectually_ I couldn't see any reason why it shouldn't do a first class job.

So I approached it slow and methodical, do it by the numbers and see what sort of job it turned out.

I now claim it is a good method not because it is my pet theory or the only way I know to do the job, but because of the results, and the relative ease with which they were achieved.

Sooner or later someone else is going to give my method a go, and then we will have peer review and a greater body of evidence.

It still won't be the only way, or the only right way, but it might be enough to make someone else ignore their intuition and give it a go and let the results speak for themselves.

That is my only agenda.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2006, 04:28:59 PM »
In looking at the photo example of a repair given by Guy Fawkes it seems to me that wouldnt it make nmore sense and a lot less work to cut say a piece of 1/8th or 3/16ths inch mild steel plate to fit the hole and either weld it to the block or braze it as a large patch?  In fact for one without the welding gear metal epoxy like JB Weld could be used as the heat is not excessive here.

The idea was to get an invisible repair that worked and looked as good as new.

There are no shortage of original listers in the UK owned by gentleman enthusiasts with plated added to cover frost damage, I did not want that, I wanted as close to original as possible.

Note well my method also allowed me to carry out that repair in situ without disturbing or dismantling anything.

JB weld and other "stick shit" methods are something that I personally refuse to contemplate using, I didn't get my ass kicked all over workshops learning my trade to just reach for a tube of paste.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

rcavictim

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2006, 04:46:40 PM »
Guy,

I understand where you are coming from wanting to keep the block looking original.  That is different than keeping it operational in a field situation.  How about cutting a patch from the bottom of a flat bottom cast iron frying pan and using electric cast iron welding rod to install that?  That cast welding rod is really pricey as is electricity now and time moreso.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Billy

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2006, 04:48:18 PM »
I am not "Chris Stevens", this being the case I wonder if you would be able to provide advice on how to go about repairing my engine, in the same way as you have done yours? I would advise you to get things sorted out regarding all this legal stuff, as its very easy to spend a great deal of money and achieve very little.

Bill

binnie

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Re: CS 6/1 repair?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2006, 05:21:15 PM »
Bill
It would be nice if you could post a pic. of the damage you are wanting to repair, so we could get a better idea of what is required and could advise better. tks binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.