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Author Topic: Flywheel energy  (Read 377 times)

Tanman

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Flywheel energy
« on: September 29, 2021, 01:34:01 AM »
This was an interesting video of someone who added a flywheel to their listeroid 6/1. He’s claiming he can pull a 15kva load, not sure about that but I wonder if this would help with the pulsing on a one lung?

https://youtu.be/Nk_VmSwwYDY
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mike90045

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2021, 06:18:22 AM »
and if I put larger and larger tires on my bike, I could go 80mph up hill, easy peddling.

That flywheel just adds surge power for a second or 3.  But a 6/1 cant pull 15kw load for very long.

mikenash

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2021, 06:47:49 PM »
Not with that cooling he won't

veggie

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2021, 06:56:29 PM »
I agree Mike90045,

Flywheels can't make power. They only add inertia (momentum)
There will not be any additional HP from the engine. (Physically impossible)
No amount of flywheel can make a 6/1 put out more than 3 to 4 kws of generator power.
His flywheel inertia may provide 15kva of stored energy for about 12 seconds  ;)
It's a scam.

Exception:
Use a 6/1 to slowly (through transmission ratios) speed up a massive Mass Flywheel Storage battery (perhaps 4 tons in weight), to 10,000 rpm.
Then disconnect the engine and use the Flywheel battery momentum to drive a generator for X hrs (depending on how much load is applied to the flywheel inertia battery.)
However, he is not doing this.

Commercial Inertia Batteries are gaining in popularity. They use excess electrical power produced during the night to spin up heavy flywheels to high rpm.
During the day when the grid demands power, the flywheels power generators for several hours to assist peak loads.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 07:08:22 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
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- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

38ac

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2021, 12:27:27 PM »
How big does the flywheel need to be so I can just turn the fuel off and have free energy?? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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mobile_bob

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2021, 05:28:17 PM »
how big?

well lets see, hmmm... i ain't smart enough to do that math required, and even if i were smart enough, and did all the math, ... i posted the answer here... i would have to... well... you know...

you have to love these perpetual motion crackpot schemes, of which the ones i find most entertaining are the motor driven generators,

"wow, i start the motor, and then flip this switch and the generator powers, the motor"
"and just to let everyone know, i have filed for a patent on the process"

:)

a hundred years from now, there will still be these sorts of things popping up.

sort of like the 200mpg carburetor, that was a real hoot.

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veggie

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2021, 06:12:18 PM »
How big does the flywheel need to be so I can just turn the fuel off and have free energy?? ;D ;D ;D ;D

.... approximately the size of the planet.
Then turn off the lister 6/1 and draw 15 kw.
That should give you give you free power for generations.
But, eventually (maybe 23.6435 billion years) the power will fade.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

mobile_bob

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 08:49:57 PM »
precisely 23.64356 billion years

(spoken in my best mr. Spock voice)

:)

but then again, there is the tiny matter of the 2103.77635 giga ton nuclear bomb you have to detonate within the 6/1 combustion chamber to overcome the inertia and get the planet size flywheel started... so on balance maybe that would be a show stopper?

too funny
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 08:53:09 PM by mobile_bob »
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38ac

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2021, 01:11:27 AM »
Tanman yes heavy flywheels certainly will help to smooth out the power pulses,, I think the technical term is cyclic variation?   As for making power, doesn't happen. They store energy that is it and even with a massive amount of flywheel the stored energy is rapidly used up
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dax021

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2021, 08:18:59 AM »
This technology was widely used at cell phone towers in South Africa in the 90's.  An electric motor turning a huge concrete flywheel, which would apparently power the tower for 2 to 3 days in the event of a power outage.  As far as I'm aware, they've all been replaced by battery storage. (which causes another problem in that these batteries get stolen on a huge scale resulting in many towers without power during an outage)

Powdermonkey

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 01:59:22 AM »
Well folks, I partially agree with you....and partially don't.  An inductive load will certainly benefit from a larger generator head.  Specifically "in the start".  As in "locked rotor amperage".  I oversize my 12/1 with a 20 kw ST head, where I originally had a 12 kw ST head (still oversized for the engine, I know, I know).  The results were immediate.  I was better able to start an inductive load, and keep the voltage vs current phases closer together (thus power).  I could witness it on the oscilloscope. 

Once the inductive load is up to speed, the current requirements totally change.  Infeed power loads on a "starting" inductive motor are MUCH larger than the "run" requirements.  And if you oversize your generator head, GIVEN the mass of the flywheels (approximately 50 instantaneous horsepower, by two each, 150 pound flywheels turning at about 1000 rpm, IIRC), you DO gain benefit.  I've proved it. 

Now, please notice that I never said you could constantly tax your 6/1 or my 12/1 at a constant demand as dictated by that 15kw head.  Obviously, that would never work.  Should you attempt, you'd find that your engine would lug down pretty quickly, and suffer the consequences of low frequency. 

Tanman

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 12:30:38 AM »
Well folks, I partially agree with you....and partially don't.  An inductive load will certainly benefit from a larger generator head.  Specifically "in the start".  As in "locked rotor amperage".  I oversize my 12/1 with a 20 kw ST head, where I originally had a 12 kw ST head (still oversized for the engine, I know, I know).  The results were immediate.  I was better able to start an inductive load, and keep the voltage vs current phases closer together (thus power).  I could witness it on the oscilloscope. 

Once the inductive load is up to speed, the current requirements totally change.  Infeed power loads on a "starting" inductive motor are MUCH larger than the "run" requirements.  And if you oversize your generator head, GIVEN the mass of the flywheels (approximately 50 instantaneous horsepower, by two each, 150 pound flywheels turning at about 1000 rpm, IIRC), you DO gain benefit.  I've proved it. 

Now, please notice that I never said you could constantly tax your 6/1 or my 12/1 at a constant demand as dictated by that 15kw head.  Obviously, that would never work.  Should you attempt, you'd find that your engine would lug down pretty quickly, and suffer the consequences of low frequency.

I think this is what the guy in the video was trying to achieve, he said it was for starting and running a bore drill. I would assume the “correct” generator head would not start the drill, but using the oversized one with some extra flywheel power was enough to get it started and the 6/1 could keep it running once started.
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38ac

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2021, 01:04:04 PM »
OK I didn't watch the video. The original post stated "pull a 15KW load" which in normal generator conversation means continuously and adding flywheel mass does nothing for that. Now when the subject changes to  surge capacity as the in rush needs for starting a motor then  yes a larger lywheel will add (very) temporary surge capacity IF the generator head is sized to match.  Just remember it doesn't come for free thus running a larger flywheel than necessary doesn't conserve fuel, it wastes it.
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cujet

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Re: Flywheel energy
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2021, 05:49:52 PM »
Putting a flywheel on the gen head is probably a neater and equally effective method. Of course, the flywheel helps starting loads a bit, but more than than, smooths out the Lister flicker.
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