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Author Topic: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator  (Read 2877 times)

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2021, 05:55:59 PM »
sorry i missed the pictures of the transformer

take a good look at the windings, do i see copper showing where the varnish has chipped off?

some of the older varnishes look black, i can't tell from the pictures if that is the case, or if the transformer has been overheated and has some shorted winding.

if it has some shorted windings, it probably cannot put out any power,

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2021, 06:03:00 PM »
Do you know how to test the windings?

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2021, 06:50:05 PM »
probably the best way would be to take it to a motor shop and have them test it.
take a copy of the schematic, for that matter a copy of the manual that you linked to.

i am looking at the last picture you posted of the transformer, i believe it to be the back side.  the center coil looks to me that is has been very hot, but again pictures can make things look different than they are in person.

but i am very suspect of that transformer, and if follows the flowchart telling us the transformer is the problem.

does it smell burnt? 

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2021, 07:05:25 PM »
Nothing about it makes me think itís over heated, but I will take it tomorrow to be tested.
Let you know ASAP.
Thanks
Al

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2021, 09:41:36 PM »
something occurs to me, that you can easily check

the little white plastic junction strip mounted on the lower part of the transformer unit, it is not original equipment.

what i don't know is this...

does the output wires going to the load connect through this strip normally?

i think the load wires are connected to the strip? it looks that way in the schematic.

what concerns me is this, that type of junction strip or at least some of this type aren't really capable of transferring the amount of power the generator is capable of through the strip bus.

you might take a look and see, check each to see of there is continuity across them, and that there is no signs of overheating there. 

its a reach, and i can't tell from the pictures, but if as it is my experience the terminal strip cross connector(s) might be blown out like a fuse having failed.. and we would assume the connections to be good when maybe they aren't?

doesn't take much to check out and see.

again we know that the basics of the generator are good,  i went back and reread the manual and the diagnostic flowchart "again" (funny how one learns a bit more with each reading). on page 11 left column, second group

where it says voltages correct and equal, and from above (center) the voltage should be approx 170vac and you got 169...

the flowchart then says it is a problem with the transformer (OREX), to inspect and change if necessary.

so everything is telling me it is a faulty transformer, however it may be the terminal strip with bad conductors, or someone has misconnected things? 

we are cornering this gremlin!  he ain't gonna get away from us!  ;)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2021, 09:48:26 PM »
Yep it seems to be pointing at the transformers, Iíll get them checked tomorrow.

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2021, 11:06:20 AM »
Morning Bob.
I think itís going to be a good day!
I didnít go to the motor rewinds CO.
It was bothering me that I could not get any response from any of the tappings , so I stripped down the connector block to double check everything.
I found that all my connections were sound and then it hit me.
The magnet wire is enamel coated! I didnít know that, but I do now.

So in the process of burning off and sand papering down to metal.
Update you later!
  :)


mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2021, 01:11:10 PM »
well i am rooting for your success!

hopefully that will be the problem, and making good connections will clear up the problem.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2021, 01:12:22 PM »
Bingo! 427 volts each phase!
Enjoyed every moment :)

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2021, 01:16:04 PM »
well now, how about that!

now go through the unit and clean, check, tighten and secure every single wire!
and make sure that everything is neat and secure, remember vibration can cause chaffing which leads to shorts and bad things happening.

i think you will be very happy with this generator!

happy as heck it all worked out.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2021, 01:20:51 PM »
Will do thatís my style.
Many thanks for your help, couldnít have done it without you.
If you ever need any thing sourcing from the uk let me know and Iíll try and help.
Regards
Al

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2021, 01:34:09 PM »
btw

if the load wires connect to that white terminal strip, which the schematic indicates, then i would highly suggest getting a much heavier duty strip. if on  the other hand it is only a terminal strip to provide connections to and from the rectifier and the field coils it is probably adequate.

if it were me i would upgrade in any even to something rated for 30amps per terminal
one that uses wrapped screw connections, rather than binding connections.

one like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113523575101?epid=23027620928&hash=item1a6e88493d:g:w2EAAOSwkFZcMBCs

you should be able to source one there in England somewhere.

in my experience they hold up much better to vibration, heat cycles, and make a much better connection that seems to last much longer than the type you are using.

those white plastic binding type seem to do better in a non vibratory and stable temp environment. 

and lastly to add to the prior post on wire/cable dressing

be sure to gather up all the transformer wires and sleeve them with insulation, and bind them together  or to the frame so that they don't move around, you don't want a wire wriggling around to the point it breaks off close to a coil, that would be a bad day that is easily avoided.

i don't know you experience, but if you can take a look in a engine driven welder, you will note that they don't leave anything unsupported, every wire is secured and protected so that vibration doesn't allow them to move around and abraid themselves or fail due to flexing.

this unit should provide years of service to you.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2021, 07:28:58 PM »
Hi Bob
All points noted.
The connector block is rated at 32amp but I will look for something more OE.
In the the attached photos what do you think is the round item. Looks like a buzzer ?
Al

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2021, 10:49:35 PM »
i have no idea what that little round thing is, as the oem schematic doesn't address the control panel, it makes me wonder that the generator was manufactured under various names each of which had their idea of what the control box should have in it.

it kind of looks like a buzzer to me to, can you chase down where the wires that feed it come from?

btw, the lacing of those two wires look to be of a very high standard, whoever did it was darn sure proud of his work, and i am impressed!

the following is a digression

i have been following this gentleman on youtube who has a long history of video's pertaining to ham/amateur radio.

last evening he was going on about new guys not buying used equipment and as a teaching aid he used his fairly recent purchase of a used (20 odd year old) homebuilt 2 seat kit airplane.

it had problems that weren't found in the annual inspection or by the airframe experts.

one of which as a cracked pitot tube feed hose, old and cracked which one might expect from an old plane that had been sitting in the desert heat for years, and worse he got a call from the mechanic that was tasked with replacing the line, that there was fuel leaking everywhere!  turned out the old green transparent line was cracked and leaking badly too.

what i found interesting while watching the video was the routing of those hoses, particularly the fuel hose, laying all about from the wing tanks, down through the frame, up over the firewall and drooped down over the side of the engine... no where was it secured properly... and for some reason that wasn't noted either!

the lacing job on your mystery buzzer part, looks to be what i would expect from an aircraft production mechanic... first rate.

based on that alone, i think your generator was built at a time when quality meant something! and people took pride in their work. especially when it came to places where most people would never see it.

i like that! a lot!

today it seems like folks just throw crap together, add a couple of zip ties and it is good enough.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

mobile_bob

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Re: Lister HA and Brush RS1B generator
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2021, 11:06:14 PM »
those two laced wires aren't connected in series with the field winding wires (blue wires, x and xx) are they?

seems like if it were some sort of warning buzzer, it would be pointing out the front of the panel, and have some sort of egress so it could be better heard.

i wonder if that is some sort of early breaker? maybe?

with the stamp steel standoff, it makes me think that it doesn't protrude out the end of the case? or does it?

interesting.

more to learn from this machine yet ;)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info