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Author Topic: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?  (Read 496 times)

Phaeton

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Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« on: August 13, 2021, 05:45:12 PM »
My nephew is currently stranded on the Cranfleet Canal in Nottingham, he has a Lister ST2W that we cannot keep running, he was coming down the Trent yesterday & the engine started to struggle & then died. I've been down today & there was a small diesel leak out of the fuel filter, so I cut the pipe back put on a new olive & tightened it up.

We thought we fixed it as it ran for 30+ minutes, but as soon as I took the tools back to the car it died & now we're struggling to get it to run more than 10 minutes. We've changed the main filter from the tank, we've taken the gauze filter out of the lift pump & given it a good clean. The small filter with the bleed (by the cylinder head) is being changed in the morning.

We can manually pump with the lift pump to get diesel to come out of the bleed on the top filter, but once running if we open the bleed no diesel comes out (no idea if it should)

I'm at the end of my knowledge of diesel engines at this point, is there anybody in the area who could take a look, or anybody with knowledge we can call to come out?

Any help would be appreciated.

AdeV

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2021, 07:09:32 PM »
I'm no expert - but I'm pretty sure you should be able to get diesel out of the bleed on the filter while it's running. That you don't, suggests that there's a problem with the lift pump. The lift pump has to be running as long as the engine is, assuming the tank is below the injector pump.

Is it an electric lift pump, or is it mechanically actuated? If the former, I'd suspect either the wiring/switch, or maybe the motor itself. If it's mechanical, then suspect any linkage, or maybe it's broken internally.  That you can manually lift fuel does at least give you options; worst case scenario, rig a gravity tank above the lift pump, and fill that manually, then let the engine run from it.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Phaeton

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2021, 07:46:58 PM »
Thank you for your reply it's a mechanical lift pump, is there any logical reason why we can't fit an electric one, I was thinking of one suitable for a car carburettor or am I on the wrong road? The easiest place for us to test the theory is to leave the lift pump in circuit & put the electric one before the 1st filter as that is just 5/16th rubber pipe, then if this works bypass the lift pump does that seem logical?

mike90045

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2021, 10:31:55 PM »
have you bled the pipe between the fuel pump and the injector ?   A small air bubble there will sit and be compressed and relaxed without actually injecting any fuel .

Phaeton

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 07:09:24 AM »
The lift pump is lower left of the engine, it then goes up by hard pipe into a small filter near the air intake which has a bleed screw on it, which we have bled from by manually operating the lift pump, this is the highest point on the circuit. It then drops down via hard pipe(s) to the injectors themselves, we have not touched the injectors. We opened the bleed with the engine running & no diesel came out, which is not what we expected ?

mike90045

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 07:14:43 AM »
With all the filter changes and such, I expect that there is a lot of air in the system.

Do you hear a "creeek"  ( I call it a "Tingg" ) from the injector when cranking with decompression off ?

listard-jp2

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2021, 08:35:47 AM »
If it was me, after changing the fuel filter on the engine, (Crosland 489 or its equivalent), and after bleeding out the fuel system as others have suggested. If the engine still does not run satisfactorily, then I would be tempted to jury rig a temporary gravity feed fuel arrangement which would connect straight to this filter inlet, even if you had to refill the fuel tank every hour or so of running it would at least get you mobile.

From what you have described, it is pointing towards a lift pump problem. However, this lift pump has a rather unique bottom end (the part that interacts with the camshaft lobe IIRC). But, the top part is to be found on many other lift pumps (the part which you need which contains the diaphragm and the non return valves) of the same era, which you could easily swap over to the existing bottom 1/2 of your old lift pump. Alternatively you may be able to obtain a lift pump repair kit. Any good motor factors would be able to obtain these parts for you.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 10:23:34 AM by listard-jp2 »

cobbadog

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2021, 11:43:53 AM »
To me it does sound as if you have a fuel supply problem and seems to be your lift pump. As suggested another lift pump or repair kit will be the solution but to confirm this rig a gravity feed fuel pump to your system.
This might help theproblem but the pump needs to be working properly to pressurise the fuel to the correct pressure to feed the rack then injector. Start with the gravity feed then if that works you know it is the lift pump and you can continue your journey doen the Trent River.
A car electric fuel pump may work to provide enough pressure to the rack and if you have one handy then wwwworth a try. If not I would buy the proper repair kit as these last a very long time.
It sounds to me that yohy know more about diesels than you give yourself credit for. Let us know how you get on.
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listard-jp2

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2021, 09:30:40 PM »
As suggested another lift pump or repair kit will be the solution but to confirm this rig a gravity feed fuel pump to your system.
This might help identify the problem but the pump needs to be working properly to pressurize the fuel to the correct pressure to feed the rack then injector. Start with the gravity feed then if that works you know it is the lift pump

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you, as the air cooled version of this engine the ST2 operated in numerous applications with a gravity feed fuel system with no problems whatsoever, with the tank mounted directly on the engine

cobbadog

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 05:22:31 AM »
True a gravity fed tank can feed the rack successfully but we dont know what height this tank is fitted at, it maybe on the floor and not mounted to the engine or above. That little bit extra info could help. It is also a reason why it was suggested to rig a gravity tank to test the theory and system for any blockages.
Haven't heard anything so maybe it is happily motoring down the River again.
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mikenash

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2021, 08:09:18 AM »
If it was me, after changing the fuel filter on the engine, (Crosland 489 or its equivalent), and after bleeding out the fuel system as others have suggested. If the engine still does not run satisfactorily, then I would be tempted to jury rig a temporary gravity feed fuel arrangement which would connect straight to this filter inlet, even if you had to refill the fuel tank every hour or so of running it would at least get you mobile.

and that will tell you if you have a problem with the fuel feed or if it is elsewhere too


Phaeton

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2021, 06:40:57 PM »
Thanks for all the advice guys, when I left on Friday night the nephew took off the remaining filter a small one near the top of the engine with the bleed screw in. He says it was as bad if not worse than the other one we did, he got a replacement from the chandlers & cranked the engine over, fuel came spurting out within seconds, so it looks like the lift pump is good after-all & it was just clogged up filters due to lack or nil maintenance/services.

He set off down the canal today & is making good if slow progress, he's into a 15mph headwind.

I have a question about a temperature sender but will start another thread.

cobbadog

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 06:55:01 AM »
Great news and a good lesson learnt. Follow the fuel line from tank to injector and ensure everything is clean. Hopefully the engine oil and filter have been done since the fuel system was not. May well be worth doing the sir filter too. By doing all of these then you have a base line as to what has been done.
Temperature sender will be a good one to sort. Need pics of what what you have and if it is a mechanical or electrical sender unit. Both are readily available.
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Phaeton

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2021, 07:58:48 AM »
Hopefully the engine oil and filter have been done since the fuel system was not. May well be worth doing the sir filter too. By doing all of these then you have a base line as to what has been done.
Neither the oil or the air filter have been done at present, the local chandlers didn't have the right ones in, but he's going to call in each marina on his way to see if they have. TBH when I looked at the air filter I've never seen on as bad as the current one is, I can't imagine how many years it's been in there.

cobbadog

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Re: Any Lister engine experts in Nottingham?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2021, 12:26:23 PM »
The little engine will think it's Christmas come early.
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