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Author Topic: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?  (Read 418 times)

bigbad

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A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« on: July 19, 2021, 12:40:23 AM »
If I want a lister to power two machines at the same time, is it advisable to put a pulley on each of the flywheels?  Also, what about putting a clutch mechanism in each of the pulleys, so that one machine can be disengaged without fan belt follies?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 01:31:52 AM by bigbad »

cobbadog

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2021, 01:01:18 PM »
I can't see too many if any isues mounting two pulleys, one each side. The only thing you might need to consider is if it is a crank start that you have room to swing the handle.
As for clutching this would take up a bit of room that your crank handle might need. Other option is one pulley off one side and to a line shaft for the driving of any thing else you want. Flat belt pulleys are an easy on off thing to do or to leave them slack and use a tensioner to engage. A similar tensioner could be done on a vee belt set up but they will burn a bit after long time of not working.
What type of pulley and clutch were you thinking of?
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veggie

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2021, 07:11:15 PM »

I agree, there should be no issues with what you are planning.
Some people buy a multi-groove pulley and run 2 belts from the same side of the crankshaft for 2 separate loads.
(2 loads driven by 1 pulley)
One advantage to running two loads in opposite sides from the same pulley is that the normal belt tension side load on the crank bearings is offset by the two drives pulling in opposite directions. ( if that makes any sense  ???  )

veggie
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bigbad

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2021, 08:31:07 AM »
Thank you!  I am not sure which kind of clutch assembly I would use.  I just learned about these engines a couple of months ago.  I like what I have learned so far - the durability, economy and simplicity.  Cons - heavier than a "modern diesel" but I think I can accept that.  It look like something that I could take apart and fix myself, which is a huge plus!

So far, the optimal solution is: belt to air compressor; belt to generator (the generator will power charging for a 48v battery pack, as well as other tools); and belt to water pump;

When I get my specs drawn up I will be back with more questions.


cobbadog

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2021, 12:09:08 PM »
In  my opinion these Listers are under rated in 2 ways, by name and by HP. I feel that the rated HP on each engine is the minimum and that in most cases is actually higher then they say.
Yes they are a very basic engine and over engineered and is why they are still popular and still running after many years of service. I don't think some of the newer engines will still be running after 10-15 years never mind 40-50 plus years.
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mikenash

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2021, 07:47:34 PM »
Thank you!  I am not sure which kind of clutch assembly I would use.  I just learned about these engines a couple of months ago.  I like what I have learned so far - the durability, economy and simplicity.  Cons - heavier than a "modern diesel" but I think I can accept that.  It look like something that I could take apart and fix myself, which is a huge plus!

So far, the optimal solution is: belt to air compressor; belt to generator (the generator will power charging for a 48v battery pack, as well as other tools); and belt to water pump;

When I get my specs drawn up I will be back with more questions.

Here in NZ the Listers were used very widely until the '70s in rural areas.  The thing they did most of was drive shearing sheds (sheep).  This was done with a flat-belt drive from the Lister to an overhead lay-shaft - often five or ten or 15 metres long, which drove multiple shearing "stations"

Your engine would easily drive a lay-shaft from which you could take other drive - then you'd have modern pulleys, bushing, hub-centres, bearings etc.  Easy to work with.  Cheers

starfire

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 09:04:36 AM »
I always found it fascinating, these overhead shafts would run in wooden blocks as bearings, and pretty much last forever. Any wear would be on the steel shafting, and not the wooden bearing blocks. Old engineering shops too relied on one big central electric motor turning overhead shafting, each drive pulley had a free wheeling pulley beside it, a fork would jump the flat belt from one to the other to activate the selected machine. I  remember the punch had a huge flywheel that took some dexterity to get to speed without squealing the belt, and causing it to derail completely.  I have no idea on the frictional losses incurred, but it was a common way to power a factory back then. Unrelated, but when I was a kid, I watched the local inventor sit in the back seat of his fordson van, and drive across the Ormondville train viaduct. His theory was that if a flat belt will center itself on a convex pulley, then a convex car tyre should stay centered on a flat railway track.  We admired his conviction, he survived, we applauded , the railways fined him for trespass.

cobbadog

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 12:28:22 PM »
Great story starfire.
Yes timber bearings were common and with some of the hardwoods around here that is eexactly what happened. Timber bearing shows little wear, metal shaft gets the groove.
/our house is now well over 100 years old now and with hardwood timber frame. When ever I need o bore a hole through it I feel as if I need the plasma cutter and not my very sharp drill bits and razor sharp quality wood chisels.
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veggie

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2021, 06:40:17 PM »

"I always found it fascinating, these overhead shafts would run in wooden blocks as bearings, and pretty much last forever".


Yes, they are amazing... until you forget to lubricate them with pig fat  :o     Then they catch fire
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BruceM

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2021, 11:07:55 PM »
On my own 6/1 setup and for my neighbors 8/1 propane conversion, we drive both generator head and air compressor, and use the pneumatic unloader valve on the air compressor to disconnect it.  My setup uses a micro-groove flat belt for the generator, Vee belt for the air compressor on a 20 inch pulley off the other flywheel shaft.  I prefer Vee now, as it requires lower belt tension.  For my neighbor's setup, we ran the generator B Vee belt flat on the flywheel, which works well. Tension is somewhat higher but saves a big expensive pulley.  So don't forget the usefulness of the flywheel flat surface in your plans.

I was a woodworker as a lad, and just loved seeing a restored, fully working water wheel powered wood shutter shop with live shafts and flat belts.  A thing of great beauty, to me.

cobbadog

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2021, 06:23:51 AM »
Now that would have been something to see Bruce, water powered.

I built a little toy tractor. Based on a Cox ride-on mower and tossed the B&S 18hp engine and fitted a Buzacott hit n miss engine of 2hp. It is driven from one of the flywheels down to a cross shaft then the vee belt back to the final friction drive. Totally as a project to display the engine in a different way than just sitting on a transporter plus it actually drives.
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mihit

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2021, 10:42:51 PM »
I love lineshafting, it's my current off-grid mission for my 12-2 Petter.

Before even electric motors factories would have had steam,coal, water wheel or diesel plant to spin a main shaft (usually vertical up several stories) which would then drive line shafts for each floor, which would then drive lay shafts for each machine.
"Clutch" was a pulley loose on the shaft, next to the fixed-pulley and engaged by "shipper rods"

Flat belts are a very effective means of HP and more importantly torque transfer. I believe they're more efficient transferring energy (less transmission loss)  than HV power pylons when the distance is less than 30 miles!

Just imagine 60 miles of belts and flywheels from a local dam to your shed!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 10:55:57 PM by mihit »

mihit

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2021, 10:44:38 PM »
As to the original question, a belt each side is almost preferable, balancing loads on the main crank bearing.

cobbadog

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Re: A Pulley On Each Flywheel?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2021, 05:04:13 AM »
I may have asked this and missed your reply, but what engine are you using and is it electric start?
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