Author Topic: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?  (Read 4037 times)

BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #165 on: September 13, 2021, 06:02:41 AM »
I'll have to check for copper condensers, thanks for that, Gary.

My high side service valve is pre -condenser; it's where they had it originally.  I can't imagine much of a pressure drop more than a few pounds given the relatively modest flow rate of a 1 ton compressor and the two parallel 1/4 tubing paths in the condenser, but I'll look into it.

BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #166 on: September 13, 2021, 07:20:30 PM »
I've got test cooling data from 5 hours of running this morning, starting at 78F for air temperature, 77F for floor.
Bottom line:  Slab temperature down 5F, about the 1F per hour, as I was expecting.  Slab a foot from the manifold down 10F. Air temp was only down 2.4F, but I expect that to continue to drop for the next hours.

No sweating at the manifold, BTUs averaging 10,860.
BTU's started at  12K, ending at  9.9K,
Current started at 3.9A and ended at 4.5A, 230V.
COP started at 3.9, ended at 2.8.  (65F to 83F) 
Outdoor air temp start at 65F, ending at 83F, fan inlet started 65, ended 85F.  Liquid line temperature ended at 105F, a 20F approach, which is very bad, the condenser and/or fan needs work.  This is the first time I've done a run with the case on, which seems to be restricting airflow.  Fans and fins work about 23% less at 5600 feet.

My minimalist floor cooling approach is working somewhat but I have to wait a few more hours to see if I need more BTUs.

I forgot to add 1.5 degrees to the digital temperature on my wall to calibrate it with the other analog thermometers, and got over excited about performance.  It's come down only slightly since I stopped the active cooling.

Edit:
Allowing for the 3 degrees F of gain I would normally get on a breezy 88F day, I did get about 4.5 degrees of benefit from 5 hours of cooling.  So just barely meeting my needs. 



 

« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 04:38:45 AM by BruceM »

BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #167 on: September 17, 2021, 12:44:51 AM »
I evacuated the system and put in the Emerson TXV today.  When pressure testing on nitrogen I had a surprise.  The cap that closes off the adjustment (6 mm hex key required) seals off the high pressure line as well.  I left it loose expecting to adjust it...it leaked badly until I tightened it.  So you cant's adjust the thing unless you are willing to evacuate the system.  Not very helpful for my setup as there is no way to easily "dial in" the best performance.

I don't know if this is common or if it's why this Emerson model was so cheap and readily available. 


mobile_bob

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #168 on: September 17, 2021, 02:56:11 AM »
i don't remember any of the expansion valves leaking while adjusting them?

that seems odd

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #169 on: September 17, 2021, 05:41:46 AM »

I'm with Bob on this one.

Look carefully near the adjusting stem and see if it has a packing adjusrment.
I doubt it but it's worth a look.

It's been a while since I've looked at one.


Gary

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BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #170 on: September 17, 2021, 04:26:02 PM »
No packing, the adjustment is deep inside the open cavity via 6mm allen key. Adjustable means they can figure out the turns for different models the hard way;  not ideal for an experimenter.

I wasn't expecting this kind of "adjustable".












32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #171 on: September 17, 2021, 04:41:58 PM »
I think you got a bad valve.

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
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BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #172 on: September 17, 2021, 05:00:46 PM »
The Emerson ANCEB-1-ZW-195 is apparently designed this way.  Not perfectly clear from their website but for the A series valves, the second letter, N, means non-adjustable.  It's in their economy series.  Thus the adjustment that isn't adjustable with the system charged.

Who knew such a thing existed?  Not me!

Now I've got to search again for an actually adjustable TXV with bleed, 1 ton, R410a. 



32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #173 on: September 17, 2021, 05:06:54 PM »

That is a bad design.  Never seen that before.


Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

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BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #174 on: September 17, 2021, 08:40:44 PM »
I'm having no luck finding an appropriate valve.  Lots of the 1.5 Ton, but not for R410A, 1 Ton.  I expect since all the smaller units have gone to inverter/electronically controlled expansion valve.  I'm visually exhausted, will try more poking about later. 


32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #175 on: September 17, 2021, 09:35:59 PM »

I wouldn't be afraid of the 1.5 valve.
Many of the units in the 12k to 16k btu range use the same txv.

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

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BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #176 on: September 17, 2021, 10:10:34 PM »
I can get the proper sized valve, with specs for suction temp of 58F,  from China-  in about a month.  They even have SAE flare connections available, which is nice if you need to replace the valve.
 
I'll look at the 1.5 ton units carefully.






32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #177 on: September 18, 2021, 12:10:58 AM »


Check the Sporlin website.

Build one. Look thru the txv charts and I bet you can figure it out.

My local counter man looked it up and had the parts list in about a min. Granted, he has
put a few of them together,  but it's not an everyday thing. It's just a few parts that get screwed
together.

Call a local ac supply house and see who builds them in your area. Most supply houses
know of each other and what they do. You may find someone locally that knows the numbers
right off

Or at least someone who can point you in the right direction.












Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

BruceM

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #178 on: September 18, 2021, 04:23:22 PM »
Sporlan is the highest priced TXV maker in the world, as far as I can tell.  Too rich for my low budget experiment with  higher suction temperature,  BPHE water cooler, I think. 

With a bigger budget I could nail down this floor cooling thing quite nicely; a bigger condenser coil with much better approach temp, slightly bigger compressor, increase the in floor water flow rate to 4 GPM via Lang D5 Strong pump to allow higher indoor humidity and add an evaporative pre-cooler plus air intake about 6 foot above ground level to reduce air inlet temps another 10F in the afternoon sun.   




32 coupe

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Re: DIY water chiller - reading suggestions?
« Reply #179 on: September 18, 2021, 07:15:37 PM »

I can't argue with that.

Reminds me of when I was quite a bit younger I had an older friend who would say:

  "Only one thing cash won't cure !"



Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"