Thermostat and heat storage questions

[Geno]

Geno---

How do you know that radiator has water in it??   Your engine creates bubbles in the outlet pipe...the area around the COV and exhaust ports are HOT!  The bubbles go up and push the water from the radiator, but then where?  How do you fill/refill?

The expansion tank is hard to see but visible in the pic above.

I'm covered, I fill it from the expansion tank. There is a vent at the very top of the rad on the high side I open to let the air escape while filling. I close the vent when water comes out and fill the expansion tank 3/4 or so. I can see the bubbles coming out of the engine as it warms up. Thats why I'm using the clear and temporary hoses. The air rises to the top of the rad and vents into the expansion tank and to the atmosphere. There might be a 1/2 pound pressure in the expansion tank. I cut the gasket a little to reduce pressure. I have a valve on the lower coolant engine thingy to drain.

This rad has fittings on top, vents on top, and a through passage on top. The fancy steam rad up the post a bit has no through passage between the fittings fins on top and I think there is only one vent about 1/2 way up on the outside fins only.

I'll be taking a bunch of pics of the entire engine room setup soon.

Thanks, Geno

Addition: Exact temps in and out unknown. I DO want an infrared thermometor.
Addition2: When its as hot as it gets the water only boils for a couple seconds every minute or 2. I have a magnetic thermometor (it gives me a general idea at least) on the head next to the cov plug and at light load it shows 175 165°, high load 185 175°. A 1/2 lb pressure in the expansion tank max is my guesstimate. If I put the cap to my mouth I can overcome the pressure easily. I'll take the cap off when its hot and see if there is more boil.

[dkwflight]

Hi I use my infared thermometer a lot because it is quick, but when I want accuracy I will use a contact thermometer. My Fluke uses a bi-metal wire for temp. pickup. The best way would be in an oil filled well to get the sensing end in to to fluid medium to sense temps. Next best would be to clamp the sense end on the surface of the pipe covered with some insulation.
My infared thermometer is based on the reflectivity of the material aimed at. I get different temps in my exhaust system depending on wether it ia aimed at paint, a threaded section, or a galvanised section of the exhaust. All with in a few inches !
Dennis

[dkwflight]

Hi As far as the operating temps go your hand is the most inaccurate way to estimate temps. If you are boiling the water in the engine you still may not be overheating the system, depending.
My projected system will boil the water. No thermostats. I am using a pump and a steam seperater. I want to condense the steam. the boiling point of water is consistant.
I can post links to pics if you want. I have also built a water loop in place under the engine sump to transfer heat to the oil. I did this because I am getting condensation in the oil from low temps
Dennis

[gpkull]

my contact thermo. is 10 degrees higher than my infared when ponited at the rad tank vs the coolant itself. distance to spot ratio will have effect. emissivity describes the way materials emit energy. acording to my papers some metals or shiney ones have a lower emissivity and cpuld give inaccurate readings. i would  like to see the links to the pics of this steam separator

[dkwflight]

Hi Here it is.
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/dkwflight/?action=view&current=100_0162.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2
The bottom tube down from the freon tank is 1 1/2". The pump pulls from the bottom tube. The discharge from the pump goes to this tube assembly.

http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/dkwflight/?action=view&current=100_0160.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1
This tube assy is installed under the engine to transfer heat to the sump. The oil temps are up 4-5deg after 1.5-2 hrs run. I may have to make some mods to heat the oil further. I won't know untill I have an 8-10 hr run.
The discharge from the tubing array goes to the manifold on the engine. The hoses from the heads go to the sides of the freon tank. the water level in the tank is near the top. the upper 1 1/2" tube will go to a radiater to condense the steam. If all this works the way I want I will add a sight glass to a heavier tank for permanent use. These disposable tanks are vrey thin.
I tried a straight tube without the tank and the result was steam and water being pushed out the top. I tried it with out the pump and there was a lot of steam and not too much water circulation. This lack of circulation was a concern to me.
The pump is a weak point for me. If the pump stops?
This is a work in progress.
Dennis

[dkwflight]

Hi Geno
I re-read your posts. The bubbles may not be steam. The water could be out gassing and the trapped air in the heads may be finding its way out. The best way is to run the engine with the same water in the rad. After several days heat cycling the water will fill every void and be de aereated.
I assume that you are useing plain water. That being the case your rad sounds big enough. If you were to put antifreeze in the system the boiling point will raise some what. Try running without the fan and check temps.
I like the KISS system. My cooling system is too compex. I was running the engine this morning with a pretty good load. I happened to look out and saw a cloud go by? I went out to find a hose had come off. Fortunately it was only a few moments. The hotter head was at 240f by infared. I'll let it cool off and refill.
Dennis

[Geno]

I’m going to get some kind of thermometer today. I’ll also put distilled water in it. I ran it for around 8 hrs yesterday and did 3 cooling cycles. I’m pretty sure the bubbles are boil and the trapped air is gone but the thermometer will tell me for sure. At around 2300 watts it maintained temp well with the fan on it but the rad was pretty hot. I’ll certainly do some more testing but it’s a pretty sure thing the rad is undersized for hot weather with my current engine room ventilation. My solution, should my suspicions be confirmed will be to ventilate the engine room better in hot weather. I have a military surplus squirrel cage fan that will at least quadruple my CFM and blow directly at the rad. Its 400 watts instead of a 100 but I may have no other, easy choice. If I’m lucky I may even get a couple pounds of boost. Another, down the road upgrade may be to put a heat exchanger on the hot side of the rad for co-gen. The outdoor wood furnace types look nice and some have the correct fitting sizes.

Thanks, Geno

[pigseye]

DKWFlight and Everyone,
I can't look at your thermostat pic at work due to our firewall.  But from what I recall it looked like the block was opened up by a machinist.  Very professional looking.  Couple of questions.

1)  I don't think I have blocks on my Ash 12/2, in this case would I modify the engine block?

2)  Is this something I could safely do by hand with a dremmel or some other similar type of tool?  Obviously i would go very slow and be very careful.  Or do you have a better suggestion?

Thanks,
Pigseye

[hotater]

 Pigseye--

All it takes on a single is a little careful grinding for clearance for the Tstat.   OR, you could take the water outlet to Napa and match up the hole pattern with something readymade.

[pigseye]

Hi Hotater,
Are you saying that Napa might have some premade blocks that house a thermostat and fit between the engine block and the outlet port?

thanks,
Pigseye

[hotater]

The guy showed me a catalog that had HUNDREDS of thermostat housings of every imagineable configureation.  I never went back with mine because I have a milling machine and just altered the original, but I can't imagine them not being able to order whatever you want.  All you need is the hole spacing and which way you want the spout to go.  Buy an armload of gaskets while you're there.   

[pigseye]

Excellent!  I'll check it out at my local Napa.

But on the other hand, I also own a mill, a benchtop Enco.

How did you machine your blocks so well?  They look like you put them in a lathe versus a mill.

I'm not a machinist or mechanical engineer and bought the mill to learn about machining.  But, I don't know how to use the mill to create a round opening in my port without purchsing or making some kind of fly wheel cutter of the correct diameter. 

What did you do?  Any suggestions?

[Joe]

Having literally a shoe box of Chevy thermostats & housings sitting around I really wanted one of them to work…and they could have with some fiddlin’…however I went with a new NAPA #253 that GeorgeB recommends…it is smaller in diameter and took very little filling on the head for it to fit. I believe it is from an 80-90’s Dodge. I added a 1/16th in hole in it for air to escape.  I did machine a step into the stock housing to accept the t’stat however it looks like a thick gasket could do the same thing.  I’ve yet to try this yet soooo………………YMMV

Joe

[Joe]

pigseye,
   You should have no problem putting a step into the stock water outlet housing with your mill…a lathe would be easier but the mill will do fine….If you look up the NAPA # on their site they should give it’s dimensions…so you can make a better judgement on weather to go that route.
There are some photos on a wepsite detailing all of this...a CD is also available...


Joe

I can't type as fast as you guys.....

[pigseye]

Hi Joe,
Wouldn't I need a rotating table?  I'm a machining newbie so a description of what is needed and how would be helpful.

Thanks,
pigseye