Author Topic: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question  (Read 427 times)

Powdermonkey

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From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« on: May 06, 2021, 01:17:36 AM »
Hi Folks,

I've been into Listeroids for several years now.  The 12/1 powers the house when the big Florida winds do bad things.  The 16/1 powered the off-grid building and machine shop for a few years...until the crank shaft broke...I'm picking up a true Lister 6/1 this summer from a departed friend. VERY much looking forward to it!

Now, I'm running a 30/2 Listeroid.  Gary set me up with the necessary parts, and the "Disco Shaker" is now running quite well.  The paint job is a metal flake green...thus "The Disco Shaker".

My ONLY issue is that neither Gary nor I have much information about this specific "larger unit".  Of note, I've got NO problem spinning up every morning.  Starts quite easily, so long as you're willing to SLOWLY build rpm with your right arm.  Believe it or not, a 2-cylinder of such magnitude is NOT something to be overly concerned about.  The build was straight forward, based on standard engineering principles.  One of the high pressure pumps was "dead on" for timing.  The other was VERY wrong.  But nothing that a tape measure and a few minutes of wrenching didn't fix. 

Bleeding was pretty simple. Actually, you really only need to bleed one of the lines.  If you can get one cylinder going, the other will EVENTUALLY catch!!

So...the questions:

Recommended running RPM?  I'm working a 22kw head from Tom in Georgia.  Right now, the engine is dialed in at 850 rpm.  Seems happy.  Wondering if anybody has specs on these twins, to see if I could/should chug it back to ~ 650 rpm?

Oil Fill:  Well, there are two or three small holes I could utilize to fill the crank case on this unit.  But...those holes ARE small.  Wondering if anybody has a recommendation? 

Water cooling:  I'm running a 50 gallon water tank on a thermosyphon.  After about 4 hours, she's getting warm.  Looks like I'm steaming off about 5 gallons over the course of a week.  Thinking I'll just plumb in a second 50-gallon tank on series.  Anybody got an opinion? 

32 coupe

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2021, 04:25:59 AM »
I tried to run my 25/2 near 650 or so and couldn't get the govenor to regulate properly. It just would
not carry a load over 4kw or there about.

I currently run it in the 850 range and the govenor seems to pickup and hold.

I even sent the  cam to Butch and had different weights installed. It just would not work in the 650 rpm range.

Your engine may perform differently. Just relying my experience with my 25/2.

Gary



« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 02:07:10 AM by 32 coupe »
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
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cujet

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 12:02:56 AM »
I have a 20/2 that was originally configured for 1000 RPM. I reduced the RPM to 800 and it seems about right. Sure, it's probably down to 16HP or so, but it matters not, it runs well there. I can also run it at 600RPM, but that seems a bit on the slow side.

I don't know if you have balanced the engine, but I found that the faster the engine runs, the worse it shakes. I spent some time getting the parts balanced individually, then operationally with my ACES helicopter balancing equipment, but there is not much I can do about the rocking couple inherent in a parallel twin with a 180 degree crankshaft.
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Powdermonkey

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2021, 11:34:53 AM »
Furtherance of the 30/2:  I've been running for several weeks now.  The Disco Shaker starts up, no problem.  Even this 30/2 is simple to start. 

There were no indications of proper oil level, so Gary recommended I run it so that the oil level does not touch the crank journals.  That worked out to 1.75 inches off the bottom. 

Just to be sure I'm actually running oil pressure, I'm putting an oil pressure gauge (0-15 psi) in line with the oil pump.

The engine runs quite well, with VERY little vibration.  I'm impressed with the balance. 

Question for the group:  I'm measuring the better part of 75 degrees difference off the exhaust flange between the two heads.  That seems to me wrong.  NOTE:  This is not measured at the water jacket, but at the exhaust flange.  So....the question:  Diesel exhaust temperature...is it higher with higher compression?  Lower with more fuel delivery to a particular cylinder?  Anybody know for sure?

32 coupe

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2021, 04:10:00 PM »
I think your exhaust temps should be closer than that.
I had to play with mine quite a bit to get it close.
Linkage and so forth.
Mine will run about 10 to 15 degrees when cold and closer
than that once it warms up.

Gary

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

Powdermonkey

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2021, 01:25:00 AM »
Excellent Gary- Thank you.  I'll plan on some tuning fun towards the end of the week. 

As I'm researching, higher Exhaust Gas Temperatures should be caused by higher fuel delivery rates to that particular cylinder? 

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2021, 04:45:45 AM »

I ended up with extra springs throughout the linkages to remove any slop in the system.

Home Depot had a box with what I guess was a few dozen different size and type springs.

On my engine the most slop was on the vertical adjustment rods.
I used springs just heavy enough to take out the extra play with out causing other problems.
I measured the throw at various positions with stop lever and the engine not running.
Once I got as much slop out of the linkages as I could with no binding throughout the entire travel then I could fine tune the exhaust temp
until they were as close as I could get with a medium load.
I would measure the exhaust temp then add more fuel to the cold cylinder and less fuel to the hot cylinder .

I don't know if that is the approved method or not but it's what worked for me.

I remember I played with it for several hours and runs before I was happy with the results.

Someone will jump in with a better and or easier way to do it I'm sure.

Before all that though make sure the valves and injector timing are correct.






Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

Powdermonkey

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Re: From a 12/1 to a 16/1 to a 30/2...and a question
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 03:04:53 AM »
Yep, good.  I've been noodling around with the linkages a bit, and a non-contact laser thermometer.  I'm slowly working my way towards "dead nuts" on the EGT's between the two heads. 

I've noticed that the vertical control rods (with horse-shoe collar attachments) provide 1/2 turn "tunability"...but that same vertical rod is threaded into the base linkages.  And because of that lower threading, I've got additional "tunability", at less than the 1/2 turn increments. 

As of today, I'm less than 20 degrees difference between the two heads.  But it's certainly been a bit of a battle. 

I'm familiar with the use of springs to take up the slop of the linkage system.  Got a spring on the 12/1, and it's really helped.  But on this 30/2, the frequency (RPM) of the engine is darned near always perfect.  It really doesn't float.  So, on THIS particular engine, I'm not seeing need to control 'nuffin that don't need controllin'.