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Author Topic: Lister Muffler Project  (Read 1613 times)

veggie

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Lister Muffler Project
« on: April 03, 2021, 03:38:07 PM »
Some have had adequate noise reduction using a 25 lb propane bottle.
The idea I wanted to try was to have 2 bottles in series creating a first stage expansion, and then a second stage expansion.
I purchased two 5 gallon portable air compressor tanks and with the help of a welder friend, added a few threaded ports so that the two tanks could be screwed together.
Also added were 2 threaded ports for inlet and outlet.
The outlet port is oriented to allow a vertical stack to be added.

Below are pictures during construction....

Here are two videos of the tests that I ran.
I must point out that in both cases there is also an automotive muffler at the engine (which are almost useless on their own).

First is a test with the listeroid. I did this test before finishing and painting the unit in case it was a failure.
It turns out that the muffler did a fine job of almost eliminating the noise. (Neighbours cannot hear it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRx_mrKnouU

Second test was after the unit was completed and connected to a changfa engine running at 1150 rpm.
You will note that the engine is mechanically loud indoors, but outside the muffler is extremely effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefDlxHy1uU

<click on pictures to enlarge>

Veggie


« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 01:35:59 AM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

BruceM

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 04:03:35 PM »
Nice work, Veggie, that seems to have enough expansion volume to do the job nicely,

For my neighbor's DES 8/1 converted to propane project, we used a "leach-field muffler" using 3 inch leach-field rock in a trench with 2" holed pipe inlet and 4 inch plastic drain pipe outlet and 4" vent cap above ground.   That completely eliminates exhaust noise. It also cleans the exhaust odors; I recommend it where exhaust fumes coming back to home or workspace might be problematic.  It can be a bargain if done at the same time the septic leach-field system is being installed.  We used about 40 foot of trench, which is more than enough.


broncodriver99

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 04:23:34 PM »
WOW! That is a dramatic reduction in sound.

dax021

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2021, 09:29:13 AM »
Why don't you turn that outlet pipe to face downwards?  That way it won't fill your tank with rainwater.

CS Dave

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 11:48:48 AM »
Will you bury the tanks or keep them above ground?
1945 Lister CS 5/1 driving a sawbench
1963 Lister CS 8/1 Startomatic  4.5 KVA

veggie

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2021, 04:06:31 PM »
Why don't you turn that outlet pipe to face downwards?  That way it won't fill your tank with rainwater.

As noted above, the outlet is positioned to accept a screw-on stack.
The vertical stack will extend up above my garage and will have a rain cap on top.
The stack will be 3" PVC pipe.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

veggie

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 04:07:38 PM »
Will you bury the tanks or keep them above ground?
The tanks will stay above ground. I developed this muffler because I have no good location to bury one.

veggie
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

Hugh Conway

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 05:48:19 PM »
Excellent, Veggie.
Your expansion tanks work significantly better than my above ground maze made with concrete blocks.
I see in the youtube vid that you have a flexible hose connecting the engine and muffler. Where did you source the hose?
I would imagine a long length of that would absorb much pulse energy as well.
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

veggie

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2021, 08:28:46 PM »
I see in the youtube vid that you have a flexible hose connecting the engine and muffler. Where did you source the hose?
I would imagine a long length of that would absorb much pulse energy as well.
Cheers
Hugh

Hugh,
It's called crush proof garage exhaust hose.
Very flexible and rated to high temperature (600f intermittent). Don't use it directly connected to the engine.
I suspect it could run at 300 f indefinitely.
Available in 2, 3, and 4". The one in the vid is a 2 inch.

Here is an example...
https://www.new-line.com/hose/automotive-truck-marine-hose/garage-exhaust-hose-crushproof-flarelok/flarelock-rubber-garage-exhaust

I got mine at Greenline Hose and Fittings.
There is a branch in Vancouver.

or, here is an Amazon example.
https://www.amazon.ca/Dayco-63520-Garage-Exhaust-Hose/dp/B001PY4Y8Y/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=crush+proof+exhaust+hose&qid=1617564415&sr=8-6

cheers,
veggie
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 06:57:04 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

dax021

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2021, 05:17:47 PM »
Why don't you turn that outlet pipe to face downwards?  That way it won't fill your tank with rainwater.

As noted above, the outlet is positioned to accept a screw-on stack.
The vertical stack will extend up above my garage and will have a rain cap on top.
The stack will be 3" PVC pipe.

Sorry, my bad.  Didn't read properly

veggie

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2021, 07:02:25 PM »
dax021,
Hey, no problem  ;)
A bigger concern for me was condensation.
Diesel combustion releases almost a quart of water as vapour for every quart of fuel burned.
With the muffler being located outdoors, there is a danger of water building up in the lower tank and then freezing whenever the engine turned off.
My solution was to drill a 1/2 hole at the bottom and weld on a threaded hub where I can screw in a ball valve.
During the winter I can crack open the valve and leave it open to drain any liquids.
We'll see if that works  ::)

veggie
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

38ac

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2021, 01:03:39 PM »
Always glad to see you post another project Veggie.  Although I have no neighbors to worry about (thank God) I do get inquiries from shop customers that have noise concerns thus I follow engine muffling threads with interest. 

My own stand by set is powered by a 1115 china diesel and even thought it is 200 feet from the house my wife complained about the noise. At the suggestion of a sound engineer I did 3 things and the reduction was remarkable.
I turned the exit vertical, added 20 feet of pipe to the the exit "above ear level" and increased the pipe size to lower exit velocity.  The results were outstanding. I think they could be improved further with the use of a double wall chimney pipe. I have been watching the used market for the pipe.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

cujet

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2021, 05:12:22 PM »
Very nice.

A couple of thoughts,

1) Just use a tiny hole on the bottom tank. Maybe you could drill your plug. It will release the water constantly. This is common on modern mufflers.

2) Consider a triple outlet "tip" using 3 different length and sized tubes. Tuned correctly, this can reduce the "thump" to 3 unevenly timed events, further reducing noise.

3) Consider a low outlet that turns towards the ground. Like a classic car tailpipe. This helps disperse noise and keeps water out.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

veggie

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 09:35:35 PM »
 *** UPDATE ***

    SILENT RUNNING

The muffler was installed in my Listeroid system and a 4" ABS vertical stack was added to take the gases high and away from the yard.
A rain cap was fabricated at the top to protect four 1" holes drilled around the circumference of the pipe.
Success !   ;D
Here is a video of the result where I am standing 15 ft from the muffler.
(If you turn up the volume you can just here the exhaust)
https://youtu.be/75ffy41BcRY

veggie
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 11:56:55 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

38ac

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Re: Lister Muffler Project
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 12:12:03 AM »
Outstanding!
Collector and horder of about anything diesel