Author Topic: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test  (Read 1485 times)

veggie

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Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« on: January 04, 2021, 08:24:48 PM »
Here's the first test of the new Changfa R175 CHP unit.

Gave me something to do during lockdowns   ;)

Some features/changes to the original engine.
- Larger and better quality air filter
- Machined an adapter to divert oil from the internal screen to an external filter.
  (This increases the oil capacity by almost 1 litre)
- Removed the hopper cooling system and replaced it with a pump driven closed circuit
  loop which passes through a flat plate heat exchanger allowing heat to be removed to a useful application.
- Installed a lighter throttle lever spring which seems to allow the governor to be more sensitive at the lower rpm.

The unit is currently designed to run continuous at 1100 rpm. In this test it is loaded to 900 watts with an electric heater.
At 1500 watts the engine bogs down so I suspect the 900 watt load is approximately 85% of full load.
https://youtu.be/8yGpl7Dmvas

« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 08:27:12 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

gadget

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2021, 02:15:14 AM »
Veggie, you have so many cool engines.

That water pump you have on there may have a longer life if you rotate it 90 degrees so the impeller/magnets ride on the ceramic shaft. Also, im curious what temps it see's with this setup. I've worked with many of those pumps. Is it a 2 phase or 3?

I love your builds

veggie

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2021, 03:06:43 PM »

Thank gadget,

The pump is a 12 volt solar hot water unit. It is wired to a toggle switch at the starter button.
I will look at the data sheet and check the allowable orientations for the pump.
Ideally the pump and heat exchanger would be mount "off-skid". But this is for testing the concept.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

38ac

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 03:09:26 PM »
Another impeccable build!  As we would expect from you!
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

gadget

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2021, 02:45:32 AM »

Thank gadget,

The pump is a 12 volt solar hot water unit. It is wired to a toggle switch at the starter button.
I will look at the data sheet and check the allowable orientations for the pump.
Ideally the pump and heat exchanger would be mount "off-skid". But this is for testing the concept.

The ceramic bearing types will have a long skin white bearing / shaft with ceramic side washers. If you lay it sideways, The rotor rotates on the shaft and not the side washers. It should add much more life. You will see it the first time you ever have to pull it apart to free it from debris.

Great pumps, I have dozens of them. I have one about 30 feet down in the ground pumping ground water 24/7. It gets ran for about 4 months strait every winter geo heating my green house.

I am really curious how well it holds up to the high temps. I have a project down the road where I would like to run one at 150F.

Tanman

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2021, 03:55:56 PM »
Did you have to adjust the timing on the fuel pump to get it to run at that speed or were you able to do that in the factory configuration (minus the lighter spring)?
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Fred8

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2021, 12:50:01 PM »
I am currently putting together a Cogen system using the same engine! Have not seen many around in water cooled versions.
 My goal is for heating the home and to get max heat out of the engine as well as having the power as a bonus.   The power can go to offsetting the power use of a fan heater or the AC.  I am not sure it will be enough but if not, I have a bigger engine and motor I can use but I thought I'd try the smaller and easier setup first. 

I have been looking for a Lister for years but the only ones I see are either 3 Hp or Very expensive  and usually, both.  This engine came up recently from a local seller at a good price so I didn't let it go. I am also tempted to look at a 2 or 3 Cyl Kubota which are not cheap but would be quiet and last forever as well as have more than ample power for my needs.

Could you give some more details of your Oil system Modification Please? I would like to be able to run 24/7 and more oil and cleaner oil would be a help. I should also make provision for easy draining with an extended outlet as well.

 Instead of a generator, I am going to use a 4 Kw Induction motor and hook it to the mains and over drive it so it back feeds.  I set it up the other day in a C2C config for testing and got just shy of 2Kw out of it. I believe I should get a lot more out of it over driven to the mains as the efficiency goes up.  From what I have read which is hard to find info on, I think it might be about 80%  motor capacity which would be the engines Max output anyway. If anyone can enlighten me on this or has links to info on these setups I'd be appreciative for the heads up as I can't find much on it. I looked at this years ago but have forgotten more than I remember now I want to put it to practice.

I was thinking of a better ( quieter) air cleaner but as it will be in the sound deadening enclosure which I have built a frame for and will insulate, I don't think It will be important. I am undecided if I should rubber mount The engine and generator or put rubber mounting feet on the whole arrangement?

I was going to do a similar plate setup to what you have but I was going to pump the coolant through the hoses and radiator in another box near the house and duct the hot air in through a window.  Using the FPHE is something I hadn't thought of but it would require 2 Pumps, one for the engine and one for the space heating.
To capture the exhaust heat I wanted to make a simple Tube in tube heat exchanger for the exhaust but am now wondering if a 60 Plate FPHE would have enough flow for the exhaust? It would probably need cleaning now and then but no biggie, carbon comes out easy .

One thing I have forgotten is how much heat I should get from the engine. If the power is 3 Kw, should the heat not be about the same? I was of the mind that an engine efficiency is in 3rds. 33% Power, 33% heat and 33% mechanical and noise losses.  5 Kw total output in heat and electricity would be ideal for my home and conditions. I am hoping that the enclosure I am building will make the thing quiet enough for operation during the night.  I will add a car muffler after the HE on the outside of the box which should take care of that but these machines have considerable mechanical clatter which is my main concern.

If I could get around ( a little under of course with losses)  3 Kw of heat and 3Kw of power, that would be about what I would like to have on tap.  I am also thinking to have the coolant return through a water heater tank which will provide insulation for storage.  If I don't need the full output of heat, I can store it in the water heater tank so when I want to fire up in the mornings, I have heat in reserve. I would look at a bypass valve so I can go straight from the engine to the water tank or go between the 2.

If this setup does not provide enough heat then I have a 12 HP engine of this type as well as a 12 Kw 3 Phase motor I can use. The 12 is radiator Cooled but I can't see any hoses or water pump so I think is still a basic hooper configuration with the radiator stuck on top.
That will be harder to move around as the engine is 125 Kg and the motor 170 kg and have to be further from the house  due to the weight so more losses but I intend to run waste oil to make the setup economical as I need a fair bit of heat in the winter so I can't be too concerned about that as long as there is enough heat and power.

If my setup comes out as well engineered as yours I will be very happy.  Your engine sounds much quieter than mine mechanically so I might pull the Pump out and see if there are any shims I can take out to pull the timing back a bit. Thinking about it the thing may be a bit advanced going by the sound.

veggie

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2021, 02:57:14 PM »
Did you have to adjust the timing on the fuel pump to get it to run at that speed or were you able to do that in the factory configuration (minus the lighter spring)?

No modifications other than the lighter spring on the throttle.
Engine speed is 1150 rpm.
It can go slower than 1150 in it's stock form.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 03:46:19 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

veggie

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Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2021, 03:45:32 PM »
Fred8

The engine only sounds quiet because my system is designed to run at 1150 rpm.
If I ran it at 2600 rpm with full output it gets very loud. (Typical Changfa type engine.)
The pulleys are sized so that the generator spins at synchronous 3600 rpm when the engine is turning at 1150.
This limits the system to 1.3 kw max output at 120 volt AC.

To modify the engine for an external oil filter you will have to confirm that your engine A] Has an oil pump and forced lube system. B] The engine has a removable filter screen that can be modified.
I don't have pictures available of the modification, but the the objective is to remove the cover giving access to the pressurized screen filter chamber.
Remove the screen filter and machine a plug that fits into the filter chamber. The plug has holes and an o-ring which re-route the incoming oil to an external port. Through the filter, and back into the screen chamber, then onward into the engine. Each engine size probably has a different sized screen and chamber so each mod is custom to the owner.
As far as I know, only engines size 175 and larger have the removable screen cover. Smaller units (160,165, 170) do not have this feature.

Your assumption of approx. 1/3...1/3...1/3 power between crankshaft, coolant, and exhaust energy is correct.

Gathering exhaust heat however, can be messy and difficult. Soot and carbon clog exhaust heat exchangers very quickly if not designed correctly and if exhaust velocity is not sufficient. Even then, regular cleaning may be needed.

Here is another example of an enclosed system that a fellow built. Provides power and heat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0ODuaoWwE


good luck with your project, keep us posted

cheers veggie
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 03:49:12 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw