Lister Engines > Listeroid Engines

Reduced HP / RPM. Setting up for continues run, low output

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gadget:
I've been searching for an option for a low output CHP set, right around .5-1 HP. I'm looking for 300-600watts continues electric and heat output. Think small cabin type setup. I want it to run continues but be able to go a 25k hours between major rebuild(if possible) so I'm thinking low 100-200 RPM. Big piston / flywheel motor looks like the way to go.

So far, I'm thinking a listeroid may be the simplest setup, but I'm not sure what kind of power output at those speeds. I was also looking at a changfa but I think indirect injection would probably be more reliable at low speed vs the changfa direct injection. Its going to also run on oil.

Issues with the lister that I know about would be the oiling and lower "running compression". I'm also dealing with altitude which will further decrease air volume.

1) Add extra pressurized oil system.
   - Oil sprayer for under side of piston. This should get the cylinder oiled and the Rod small and large end.
   - Oil stream for the mains ( in addition to existing???)
   - Extra oil for all camshaft points
   - Add oil filter while at it.
   - Any thing else?

2) Add a blower
   - centrifugal - vane style
   - belt driven
   - 1-3 PSI

3) Water dripper for coaking issues

4) Governor mods for smoother low RPM response(?)

generator would be a permanent magnet driven directly off the flywheel (Radial or axial)

Possible?

Hugh Conway:
Gadget......
 I don't have a lot of experience with what you are thinking about doing but will put in my $.02 anyway.
You can probably do this. IIRC, there is a long time LEF member who is off-grid, and runs his 6/1 at 300 rpm for battery charging. He has been doing it for a long time with no apparent oiling issues. There is plenty of oil thrown around even at low rpm, so maybe no need to add the complication of pressure oiling. Remove the crankcase access door, secure a rag over the opening and run at low speed, you will see the amount of oil that gets .....well, everywhere. Ask me how I know......without the rag! The mains are drip feed as well as the splash so they are well lubed.
You could up the compression (adjusting the squish clearance) easily by reducing the thickness of the cylinder base gasket(s) or installing a COV in place of the usually installed plug and keep it in the cold start position.
Oil for the cam......seems the only problem point there is the area that is directly below that bolt that should be removed to lube the cam prior to starting after the engine has been sitting for a long time. I think another member welded a pin on to the bottom of that bolt to catch additional splash and let it drip directly onto the cam bearing area.
Blower......I am clueless there, but it has been done by others. Maybe you won't need that anyway.
Water injection.....I just use  a spray bottle and squirt some distilled water into the intake every so often. There are some informative threads from others with a lot of good info about different water injection methods.
Gov mods.....I played around with different springs and got my gov to hold 60 Hz very closely (at 650rpm). There is a thread on the WOK about gov springs.
PMG......I use one, belt drive. Direct drive seems not able to absorb the power impulses so well, but is done. Serpentine belts seem to last forever, inexpensive and readily available.....even at a wrecking yard.
Give it a try. As a good friend says, it's not an experiment if it can't fail.
Before I post this, here's an old thread with a good discussion (including more links) about low Rpm running. very informative from those who have more experience than I.
https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7498.0
Good luck and keep us informed of your progress!
Cheers
Hugh

veggie:
For continuous running you will somehow have to deal with valve train lubrication.
Also, oil filtration may allow for longer oil change intervals.
Combine the solutions...
Consider this idea for continuous long runs with a 6/1 CS style.
It is something I am considering for my Listeroid.

-Replace the oil drain plug with a TEE fitting.
  one port on the tee is for draining
  one port on the tee is to connect a very small gear pump
-Draw oil from the sump with a small gear pump and pass it through an oil filter

From the filter you can branch to several locations in order to get the oil back to the sump.
 1] The camshaft oiling plug near the decompression lever (this will solve any cam bearing lube issues)
 2] If you want to include the valve as well, use a tube up to the valve assembly to trickle over the rockers and valves.
     To drain the valve area you drill/tap a drain hole in the side of the cast iron ledge surrounding the valve chamber.
     From there it can drain back to the camshaft lubrication plug by the decompression lever.

Obviously the flow must be very low, so a tiny gear pump is needed. (Or a larger gear pump with a bypass line taking the majority of the oil directly back to the sump while some oil goes to lubricate the valve system.

This is an old video but it does show a small gear pump running off my auxiliary crank pulley.
From the gear pump the oil passes through the filter and back into the sump. (I vented the crankcase elsewhere with a check valve).
Further modification to this system would be to TEE a connection before the oil goes back into the crankcase and divert some up to the valves.
Then have it drain into the camshaft lube port discussed above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l562wUof59c
The vid is a bit lengthy but you can jump to the 0:30 second mark to see the lube system.


good luck with your project,
veggie

Hugh Conway:

Valve lubrication for continuous operation......good point Veggie!

I'm always looking for the most simple and foolproof way to do things. Being  a simple kind of guy.....
For valve gear lube on long or continuous running, my solution would be a gravity feed oiling system. A container of a litre or 2 capacity of clean oil with a manifold having as many valved off-takes as is wanted.....say of 1/8 copper tube. Each lube point can be individually adjusted. I don't think the cam would require any additional lube oil, as when running, it gets plenty.
Some advantages:
inexpensive and very easy to fabricate (big point for me)
No modification of the engine
no moving parts (failure points)and gravity is usually fairly reliable.
and........
clean oil being applies to the valve gear........no dirty black crankcase oil oozing over the top end (and recall the sump is there to collect nasty stuff) It is as difficult to remove as ball point pen ink from a white shirt.
Cheers
Hugh

 
 

veggie:
@Hugh

In your scenario where would the oil go after lubricating the valve assembly. (Assuming oil is continuously dripping onto the valve train)

cheers

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