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Author Topic: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids  (Read 491 times)

BruceM

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2020, 12:47:10 AM »
My engine shed has a small PV panel that keeps the 12V battery charged.  It might be 40W.  So I can run the air compressor alone, with no battery issues. It's sunny enough here at 5600 ft in AZ so that I can use any retired 12V battery.  In essentially float service, an extra 4-6 years is common. 

The Gast 4AM can't pull through compression, no even close.  Air motors have very low starting torque. Good for not slipping on the flywheel but makes decompression required. In 0F weather (very rare here) , I must unstrap the compressor for first start; it has too much drag when the compressor oil is that cold.  I do have a glow plug, a great help for winter starts at my elevation.

Since my Listeroid 6/1-ST-3 was destined for dual use air compression for my shop's 500 gallon air tank, I used an air cylinder for each, rack closer and for a valve lifter. Small ones are dirt cheap and I plumbed them with 1/4 drip irrigation line and slip in fittings. Small 12V solenoid valves and an N-ch Mosfet transistor let the Picaxe 40X2 do the "heavy lifting". Only the Gast 4AM needs a big high flow solenoid valve.

If I was starting over, I'd copy Hugh's setup. Air works great but is annoying for leaks; pilot valves, checkvalves, etc., all leak slightly and have an operating lifespan. The plumbing alone probably cost what Hugh spent, and his setup can be maintained by any good mechanic. 



Hugh Conway

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2020, 01:07:03 AM »
@BruceM
Thanks for the words re my starter/generator set-up.
Really, all the credit goes to Veggie. He posted his on the Microcogen site something like 4 or 5 years ago. that's the one you can see in his youtube video link. He also posted the electrical schematic there. All I had to do was to obtain a starter/generator and a regulator, then put the whole thing together. I made a different kind of mounting, but it's essentially the same. It's worked just fine ever since. It will not roll over the listeroid without the compression release either, but will start after 4 or 5 revolutions. I think I mentioned there is something like 1000 hours on this starter/generator installation......roughly about 500 starts. The engine has about 2250 hours total, first with the hand crank, then later with the friction starter.
BTW, I have a Dursley 6/1 also turning a PMG (originally a startomatic) that one is still started by hand, but with the heavy flywheels and the COV, it is an easy start-up.
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

BruceM

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2020, 01:19:51 AM »
Thanks, Hugh,  for reminding me that Veggie is the originator (at least here) of the CS- DC motor/generator setup, Hugh.  My memory is terrible.  Just one of the many losses MS brings.  And thanks to Veggie for his marvelous work and first rate and original genset designs he has shared with us over the years.

veggie

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2020, 03:15:22 PM »

Hugh,
Nice pictures, I especially like your design for tensioning the belt on the PMG Generator.
A hand crank !   Well done.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

veggie

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2020, 03:21:22 PM »
Since my Listeroid 6/1-ST-3 was destined for dual use air compression for my shop's 500 gallon air tank, I used an air cylinder for each, rack closer and for a valve lifter. Small ones are dirt cheap and I plumbed them with 1/4 drip irrigation line and slip in fittings. Small 12V solenoid valves and an N-ch Mosfet transistor let the Picaxe 40X2 do the "heavy lifting". Only the Gast 4AM needs a big high flow solenoid valve.

BruceM,
When you get a moment would it be possible to post a picture or two showing how you mounted the air cylinders to the decomp and fuel rack?
I am currently working on an auto start system for mine. As Hugh pointed out, the starter/generator can easily spin the engine up to starting speed when de-compressed and it can be actuated by a relay, but as yet I have not figured a way to actuate the de-comp and fuel rack.
I know you made a few videos also, if they show your linkage,  perhaps link the videos.

Much appreciated.
veggie
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

Alan Hale

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2020, 06:32:11 AM »
I have A 6hp  Lister with a 2  1/2 kva genny  The last owner cut the wires throught to move it 50 years ago.   I can start the Engine with the handle and it rund goocd I have renewed most of the wires but there are some still need doing I do not know much about generators  or the SOM  i have Not tried to run with the belts on in fear of a shock  !  I would put some pics on here but dont knoe HOW    kind Regards Alan 

xyzer

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2020, 03:23:05 PM »
12 volt, rubber drive wheel. Another way.
https://youtu.be/_QmWXNo-Gmg
Sorry! Won't copy link?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 03:31:56 PM by xyzer »
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BruceM

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2020, 05:38:21 PM »
I sent some photos to Veggie when he PM'd me.  Forgot to post here for the larger audience in case someone else was interested.  For setups where air is handy, pneumatic cylinders are cheap and powerful.  Otherwise, I'd look at the short throw motorized actuators from China. I use a pair of Picaxe 40x2's for remote start/shutdown/monitoring control.  They talk over about 400 feet of Cat5 cable, at a whopping 600 baud, an opto-isolated current loop.

Great to see XYZer show up here!  A personal hero of mine. One of his idler gear offset bolts keeps my Listeroid going strong.  His research showing Rajkot was mis-locating the idler bolt compared to the CS solved the mystery of gear failures.  His posted video of a foot engaged, electric rubber roller starter with auto glow plug switch is a very impressive piece of engineering!

Alan,  welcome!. There are some folks here who do know the SOM very well (I don't.), but you're best off showing us some detailed pictures to show just what you've got and what has been cut/disturbed. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce M
 


scott p

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Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2020, 06:09:09 PM »
Wow, “atmospheric friction modifiers” how did you come up with that ? Threw me off for a while.

 Thanks for filling in the pages guys. I see now how it works or can work in different ways. I have been trying to come with a way to remotely turn off my HR2 remotely and since there is air present duh.

All this talk of slow speed engines gives me an urge to have a look at a slow speed gas engine I have had sitting around for many years.  It is a horizontal single cylinder engine with two 34 inch flywheels, a 6 inch bore and 22 inch stroke. All bearings are babit. I had it bored out with a new piston.

 Seven HP at 300 Rpm, I was using it to run a generator and it did quite well. But a problem soon put an end to that setup. On the extreme end of the stroke the piston did a little number and acted like it did a jerk against the bore, which soon killed the engine.

I did take the time to hone out the dent in the bore so I am thinking it could run again with new rings, which I have.

Apparently the connecting rod is bent or I would think less likely the crank is bent or out of position.

 I am playing around with ideas on how to find the problem.