Author Topic: SL1 stalling warm  (Read 594 times)

Passenger

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SL1 stalling warm
« on: September 29, 2020, 09:51:36 AM »
Hello!

I have a mysterious problem with my engine. It runs perfectly for about 15-20 min and shuts down after that. It wont start after that, before cooling down.

Tank is up high, and fuel seems to be running well after disconnecting lines. 

 I've replaced all fuel line seals and made sure that there are no air leaks.

I've also replaced fuel pump and injector unit with new ones.

What am I missing here? Blown head gasket? Cracked cylinder or head? Are these common?

Fuel injection timing?

My headache isn't going away before I have my Lister running again!

So please, any help is wellcome!

-JP








AdeV

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 12:03:18 PM »
Hi JP,

Some questions:

Is it easy to turn over when it's hot? Easier than when it's cold? Or the other way around - really stiff to turn when hot?
Does it smoke at any time when running (and if so, what colour)? Is it smoking when it's stalling out?
Does it gradually slow down and stop, or does it just quit all of a sudden?
If you try to start it when hot, what does it sound like? Wheezy or normal? Do you get any white smoke?

I'm sure others will chime in with questions & suggestions that I haven't thought of.
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

cobbadog

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 12:23:58 PM »
All very good and important questions there AdeV.
Another remote but possible issue is fuel vaporisation if a fuel line is running close to a high heat source.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

Passenger

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 03:44:24 PM »
Hi guys!

Thanks for your responses.  :)

Hi JP,

Some questions:

Is it easy to turn over when it's hot? Easier than when it's cold? Or the other way around - really stiff to turn when hot?
Does it smoke at any time when running (and if so, what colour)? Is it smoking when it's stalling out?
Does it gradually slow down and stop, or does it just quit all of a sudden?
If you try to start it when hot, what does it sound like? Wheezy or normal? Do you get any white smoke?

I'm sure others will chime in with questions & suggestions that I haven't thought of.

It doesn't seem to affect engine turning noticeably whether engine is cold or hot.

There is some white/light grey smoke, which seems to be increasing somewhat at the end.

Stalling is not very sudden. It fades away within few seconds. No misfiring, rough idle or coughing. Engine just quiet down, maybe within 5 to 10 seconds. Until that it seems to run normal to me.

Is it possible to attach a video clip here?


Thanks again!


cobbadog

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 07:38:37 AM »
Yes you can attach a video but when I do it I list the video on say YouTube then post the link here. This is a backward way of doing things but it works for me.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

AdeV

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2020, 08:10:21 AM »
Agree with Cobbadog on that one - best upload the video to Youtube & link it here. We're a bit limited on disk space right now, so hosting video clips is not really possible...

Based on the description, it does sound like you might be getting fuel vaporisation in the high pressure line; does it go particularly close to the cylinder head perhaps?
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

hwew

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2020, 10:21:53 AM »
It sounds like it could be a fuel pump issue once the engine heats up. Iíve seen this done with a Farymann diesel to test the injector pump. If you are able try packing just the injector pump with a small sandwich bag of ice and see if the problem disappears.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:07:20 AM by hwew »

ajaffa1

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 10:37:36 AM »
Hi JP, an interesting problem you have there. Have you checked the tappet clearances? The ST1 I am working on has a clearance of 7 thousandths of an inch to allow for expansion of the push rods and valves as the engine warms up. If this was set too tight you might find that you loose compression as the engine nears it`s running temperature.

Bob

hwew

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2020, 10:49:01 AM »
+1, that was the next thing I was also going to suggest.

Lots of times white smoke indicates an injector pump, timing or fuel filter issue. I never seen an SL1 in person but symptoms are mostly the same with other diesels.

hwew

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2020, 11:38:08 AM »
I missed reading that you replaced the injector pump and injector. ::)

Fuel vaporization? Iím not an expert on Lister SL engines. Can the fuel system on these engines get that hot?




hwew

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2020, 12:22:44 PM »

ajaffa1

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2020, 01:35:41 PM »
Hi Guys, diesel fuel comes in many different types but generally it won`t start to evaporate/vaporize until it gets to around 150 centigrade. Water cooled diesel engines run a bit below 100 centigrade to stop the coolant boiling. Air cooled diesel engines run at around 110 centigrade and are consequently more fuel efficient. There is nothing in the SL that should cause fuel to vaporize in the fuel lines. The fuel tank is external and coupled to an external fuel filter, there is a steel fuel pipe that runs from the filter to the injector pump via a slot in the upper crankcase door. The fuel temperature should never be able to exceed the crankcase oil temperature as the oil flowing to the cylinder head returns to the sump inside the upper crankcase door and over the injector pump and incoming fuel line.

Bob 

AdeV

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2020, 05:01:03 PM »
The fuel temperature should never be able to exceed the crankcase oil temperature as the oil flowing to the cylinder head returns to the sump inside the upper crankcase door and over the injector pump and incoming fuel line.

So... unless the engine is getting far too hot, that shouldn't be an issue. Still, worth checking?

I like the tappet clearance possibility; that would certainly cause the engine to quit. I'd expect a bit of white smoke as it did so, as the injected fuel sorta-burns off in the heat of the combustion chambers. It's also a doddle to fix - well, assuming the rockers are reasonably easy to get at (I've never knowingly seen an SL engine).


Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Hugh Conway

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2020, 05:29:03 PM »
Cap on fuel tank not vented? Vent plugged?
Maybe not, but easy to find out.
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
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Passenger

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Re: SL1 stalling warm
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2020, 10:24:45 PM »
Hi!

Good discussion here.

I'll take a good video clip Friday...including the shut down part.

Fuel tank itself is vented aftermarket tank. I've also tried another tank (bottle with vent cap) to rule out the tank. Same thing with another tank.

I dont think that the engine heat could rise high enough to cause vaporization this fast. I'll measure temperatures to rule this out also.

Tappet clearance is in check. 

Fuel injection timing is one thing I havent check. The shims are intact though. Could wrong timing be causing these symptoms.

Thanks again for everyone!  This thing is puzzling me   ???