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Author Topic: No Start..  (Read 6377 times)

fireram

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No Start..
« on: August 13, 2006, 03:59:30 AM »
Well, I must be forgetting something.

I turned the commpression knob in, put the leaver in the up position, put the valve holder on, turned the fuel on, gave it a couple of pumps with the oil pump, and cranked as fast as i could.

Once spinning fast I released the valve, and tried to keep turning it, but all I could get was some white smoke from the exhaust...

So back to the internet to find out what I am missing..

no worry's,, I'll get her started eventually....

I took off the fuel line going into the injector, it is pumping fuel that far, not much though???

It seems to have good compression, I cant keep turning it very long with the exhaust valve working..

Anyone have any ideas, the gentalman I got it from has not had it running for some time, but it is in very good cond..

Thanks...

jimmer

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2006, 04:39:46 AM »
If the "leaver" is the injection pump rack, put it in the down position to run.

Move it up to stop the engine.

jim

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2006, 02:23:00 PM »
fireram---

I can't figure out where your smoke is coming from.  You had the fuel lever shut off.

Listen for the injector 'squeek'.  It's a unique noise that's easy to hear.  If the injector is working it'll crank.

BE SURE to prelube the engine before starting.  Take the door off and squirt oil directly into the pre-oil places.  I know the originals have an oil pump primer, but is it working and what's it pumping?
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Tom

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2006, 02:55:07 AM »
I don't know Hoater my injector makes sort of a clack rather then a squeak. For sure the fuel lever is off.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

dkwflight

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 03:06:54 AM »
Hi Maybe your compression is not as good as you think.

It seems to have good compression, I cant keep turning it very long with the exhaust valve working..

Put several squirts of oil in the cyl.
You can pull the injecter and reattach the fuel line and examine the spray pattern of the injecter
Dennis
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 03:09:04 AM by dkwflight »
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

hotater

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2006, 03:08:04 AM »
Never argue noises with a deaf guy!

 My 41 Mag makes a 'clack'!    ;D
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

fireram

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2006, 04:17:28 AM »
Thanks, I will try tomorrow after work.

Start with the fuel lever down...

If I still get nothing I will take the fuel lines off, and the injector out, I assume I just take the two nuts off the sides of the injector and pull it out??

Or do I need to take the cap off, and remove the innards first??  I see there is a set screw in ther with a jam nut. Dose this need calibrating? or is it a set number of turns from bottom??

If any one would like to see it, you can try my web site at www3.sympatico.ca/huntster/

Follow the link to my new to me lister...
The pics are from the gentalman i purchased it from, I will add more soon.

If the links do not work, let me know, I have a floating IP address and the pics are directly from my computer, not enough free web space available for all the pics on the server..

Thanks again for the help.  I will let you know how it goes..

dkwflight

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2006, 11:15:17 PM »
Hi Pulling the injecter is easy. Just take the fuel line off. The two studs adjacent to the body of the injecter hold is in. Remove the nuts and the injecter should come out. There is a copper flat washer in the hole or it will come out with the injecter. Don't lose it.
Reattach the injecter to the line bleed the line some by cranking the engine, Tightn the nut on the injecter line and crank some more to examine the spray pattern. It should be a very fine spray. There are pictures posted on the Yahoo group site and in coppermine too, I think

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lister_CSOG

Clean the injecter sholder and washer with a cloth and some fuel. Clean the hole in the head with a cloth and a screwdriver. moisten the cloth with fuel. oil the copper washer and reassemble the injecter. Severeal squirts of oil down the injecter hole won't hurt either to help seal the rings for the first start. Re bleed the injecter too.
Dennis
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 11:17:24 PM by dkwflight »
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

mobile_bob

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 04:10:53 AM »
and resist the urge to check the pressure of the spray with your hand,,,
a very good way to get injected and get blood poisoning.

i assume you knew that, but if it saves someone from getting hurt i thought it
worth mentioning

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

EVguru

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 09:54:37 AM »
With the valve lifter out and starting with the engine stationary, can you crank it over compression?

A good engine will attempt to pull your arm out. The valve springs are quite light and it doesn't take much to make the valves leak. Pushing them down by hand whilst rotating then can help clean the seats, but they may just be worn out. The piston rings can also stick.

If you're getting white smoke you must be getting fuel, you're just not getting it hot enough to fire, which does suggest weak compression. Get an electric hot air paint stripper and direct the hot air straight down the intake whilst you crank. If there's any compression and any fuel it should fire.


fireram

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Re: No Start.. Its Alive
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 02:25:27 PM »
 :D ;D

It runs....  I took the injector out, hooked up the fuel line, cranked her over and poof. I put a torch to the cloud, it ignites very well..

I put it back together and still could not get her to fire. I can not turn it over under compression. So I hooked up a 1/2 horse electric I had sittin around, with a belt, and after a couple trys she started to catch.

The 1/2 horse would not spin it under compression, so I helped her along with the crank. After she got going I let it run for a while, the head got warm, but the water stayed cold. It started very easily after.

I now have a few more questions..

When at idle, no load, should it run smooth and fire every cycle?  This old girl sounded like a hit and miss, firing only enough to keep the rpm steady???

I was able to stall the motor by pressing my foot against the flywheel, it seems like the governor was not giving it more fuel, I am able to move the rack to speed it up, just wondering if there could be a problem there, or should you be able to stall one of these with a running shoe

It came with  a 2.5kw 140V 17.8 amp genni I am going to find someone to look at and if it is OK i will hook it up and put a proper load on it.

Thanks For All your info, It was great to see those big white smoke rings..  One interesting thing was the muffler that came with it has 6 holes in the bottom of the stak you can open or close. It makes it a little quieter when closed, just not shure of the purpose of these.  When I get a chance I will take a pic..

fireram

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 03:32:46 PM »
I just came back from the shed, No way can I turn that over through compression, and she dose not want to start from cold.

It gives me lots of white smoke, but without the electric motor to help me keep it spinning, I just run out of steam....

I have found something about a pawl on the fuel pump, off another web site. I did not see it on mine, but am off to the shed to check..

dkwflight

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 05:51:28 PM »
Hi If this engine has the compression change knob, screw it in. This increases compression for starting!
The muffler doesn't sound stock. But then I don't know that much about original Listers.
Dennis
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 05:54:13 PM by dkwflight »
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

Andre Blanchard

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Re: No Start.. Its Alive
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 02:03:06 PM »
I now have a few more questions..

When at idle, no load, should it run smooth and fire every cycle?  This old girl sounded like a hit and miss, firing only enough to keep the rpm steady???
My guess would be you have some little air bubbles in the fuel system.  Any air between the injector pump and the injector has to be compressed before the injector will open up (the injector is basically just a pressure relief valve), at low power the injector pump may not be have enough stroke to compress the air to the point the injector opens so the engine misses a cycle or three before the engine slows and the governor opens up the pump enough, then you get a few hard hits and the engine is back up to speed, and the hole thing repeats.


Quote
I was able to stall the motor by pressing my foot against the flywheel, it seems like the governor was not giving it more fuel, I am able to move the rack to speed it up, just wondering if there could be a problem there, or should you be able to stall one of these with a running shoe

Torque = (Horsepower * 5252)/RPM = (6 * 5252) / 650 = 48 foot pounds

And being that the flywheel has about a 12 inch radius that is only 48 pounds of drag that your foot has to resist.  So yes you can stall the engine like this.  It is also why a fractional HP V belt like a 4L can be used, when they rate V belt HP they are thinking more normal size pulleys.

Note that this is not a recommended procedure for loading an engine.  ::)

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 02:09:26 PM by Andre Blanchard »
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Andre' B

hotater

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Re: No Start..
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2006, 02:47:43 PM »
Fireram---

It sounds to me that your governor is not working and you have no throttle to speak of.

The FIRST thing to do is take the engine apart and learn what part is supposed to do what.  It sounds like you don't know what it's *supposed* to do, so don't know *what* it's doing.

USE a  2x4 to put pressure on the flywheel.  If it don't smoke something is wrong!  To
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.