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Author Topic: Timing information  (Read 829 times)

Zvh_greatwhite

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Timing information
« on: July 30, 2020, 06:48:31 AM »


Hi guys av had a customer come to me with a 2 cylinder lister engine (TW2 model) that wont turn over buy hand ,after a closer look there seems to be sand in the intake so am guessing that there have dragged it along the beach and sand has gone in the intake ,

Wot am intessed  in is how to time the engine so that a can remove the heads , and if a carnt get the time mark to line up because off the sand stopping it can a just put it at top dead centre once heads are remove so that a can set the valve  clearances on refitting heads

Am a complete novice to these engines so any links to timing marks, valve clearances ect to the information would be gratefully appreciated  thanks graham

Not new to spanners just the engines




cobbadog

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2020, 12:46:03 PM »
I dont have one but the very best advise I can offer is to find a workshop manual before you start to strip it down. Take way too many pics to use as a referance for re-assembly. I was able to do a simple Google search and found a manual for my engine and it is a freeby. Maybe someone has a thread on this site for manauals so try a search  back on the home page to see what turns up.
You will need your timing marks before you tear it apart as having the piston at TDC may not be combustion stroke. Another suggestion is to remove the air intake and have a look inside the ports for sand and how much. By now it must be dry sand and some high pressure air could remove most if not all of it except if some is inside the cylinder. There is something I would check to find that out and it would be to remove the injector and buy one of those endo-scopes that attach to your mobile phone and have a look inside for any sand. Again another blast with high pressure air might be good enough to get rid of it.
If the engine still turns over and you have blown the sand out then you can change the oil, add fresh fuel, bleed the system out of all the old fuel and try a start. You could even try lifting the rocker covers off to make sure there is no damage to the valves. These are simple enough steps that done require a manual or skill. Again as it sounds as if this is all new to you take a lot of pics.
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Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2020, 05:17:51 AM »
A have removed the heads and all is good in side no damage but plenty off sand removed , heads replaced and now just need to find how to time the valves up , will replace injectors once valve clearances are set . Workshop manual is a great idear will look to see if any one has them thanks

mike90045

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2020, 07:49:17 AM »
If you have not disturbed anything else, the valves should be very close to spec when you removed the head, and that will change when you re-torque the head after a couple thermal cycles of the engine.  only a slight re-adjustment would be needed

sirpedrosa

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2020, 03:09:48 PM »
Hi Zvh_greatwhite

Put a pic of the engine here, and also a pic of model plate.

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 01:47:17 PM »
Sorry for the delay in the picture guys been flat out with other work ,av put it back together so that know parts were lost as the guy wanted to take it and mount it in his boat till a got the information a needed to set up the valve timing
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 01:49:11 PM by Zvh_greatwhite »

sirpedrosa

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2020, 09:59:19 AM »
Hi Zvh_greatwhite

You need valve timing or valve clearence?

need also to synchronize Inj. pumps?

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

cobbadog

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2020, 12:41:34 PM »
Not sure of why you are looking at timing, I would set the valve clearances, check the fuel system and as suggested double check the injector pumps are balance, fully open and closed at the same time. Bleed the fuel system from the tank to the pumps and try a start up and be ready to shut it down incase something is wrong. Even try turning the engine over with the decompression levers engaged to see that it turns over woth no issues.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

sirpedrosa

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2020, 02:41:19 PM »
Hi Zvh_greatwhite

A closer look to that engine, it seems to need some TLC, unless you just want it to run and go till it give last breath!

As far I can see it doesnt got the chain to link raised start handle! Amoung other suprises you will have!

Any help needed we are all here!

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 10:30:15 AM »
Am thinking valve timing / fuel injection (out)  av set the valve clearances at TDC and got fuel up to the injectors....av turned the engine over and there seems to be smoke coming out off the intake so it sounds like av got the valve timing set up wrong , but av not had any thing to do with these engine before so it all new to me setting valve timing by hand /eye

All av done is remove the push rods and refited them ...not touched the bottom end timing

The starter chain isnt needed on the engine as it's got a starting motor

Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2020, 10:36:45 AM »
Not sure of why you are looking at timing, I would set the valve clearances, check the fuel system and as suggested double check the injector pumps are balance, fully open and closed at the same time. Bleed the fuel system from the tank to the pumps and try a start up and be ready to shut it down incase something is wrong. Even try turning the engine over with the decompression levers engaged to see that it turns over woth no issues.

Can you tell me how to check the injector pump balance , av got some thing not working wright , as it seems to be blown smoke from the air in take


Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 10:43:49 AM »
Hi Zvh_greatwhite

A closer look to that engine, it seems to need some TLC, unless you just want it to run and go till it give last breath!

As far I can see it doesnt got the chain to link raised start handle! Amoung other suprises you will have!

Any help needed we are all here!

BR
VP
The guy that's asked me to fit it to his boats not to bothered about the engine , and doesn't want to spend any money on it it probably be just run in too the ground . A just need to get it to run and start and that's my work done

If it was mine add off put fresh oil filter ect but the guy didnt even want that doing (not the way a like to work ) but helping a friend dad out

sirpedrosa

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 11:46:18 AM »
Hi Zvh

"The guy that's asked me to fit it to his boats not to bothered about the engine , and doesn't want to spend any money on it". And you are bothered about it?

He doesn't want to spend any cent, but you want to spend your time? There is no such friendship.

Are you earning any money with your time? if not, let it go and tell dad's friend things are not like this.

Dont messup with that engine, just my humble opinion.

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

Zvh_greatwhite

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 01:09:23 PM »
The guy has gave me a couple to remove the one that was in the boat and get the sand out off the lister , so am in to deep to just walk away ,

Some one said that there could be a problem with the rotation off the starting motor witch is not helping how can a fing out witch direction the engine rotates , brand new starter

sirpedrosa

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Re: Timing information
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2020, 06:23:28 PM »
Hi Zvh

what brand is the removed one? and where is it, did you have it with you?

What? did you receive money blindly?

Sand in Lister? Was it drowned? swallowed water?

First things first: C stands (in serial plate) for clockwise, so it will turn in that way seen from flywheel.

That engine MUST be fixed and running in bench. Less then that you will burn your time, your patience, your mony, and your health.

You are free to teel us all the story.

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!