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Author Topic: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)  (Read 314 times)

rp928

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Hello everyone and and thank you for accepting my membership request. I am new to this forum and to Lister engines in general. I have a DES 18/1 (Listeroid) I am assembling from a kit and noticed something odd with the oiling system. I (hopefully) uploaded some pics to help ask my question.

I removed the crankcase door to view the internals of the engine. I followed the oil distribution lines to understand how the lubrication system works.

The line on the left appears to dump oil directly onto a roller bearing.


The right side is similar but has what appears to have a flow restrictor of some sort. Notice that it points away from the roller bearing.


The center connecting pipe appears to be split in the middle.


I have not been able to find any pics of the lubrication system online so unfortunately I have no example to reference.

Does anyone know:
 
1) Should the left line have a flow restrictor?
2) Should the right line be pointing toward the bearing and should it have a flow restrictor?
3) Is it unusual for the center connecting pipe to look like that? (Could it be two pieces and what I see is a seem that should be there)

Any help you can provide would be appreciated!

Regards,
Rich
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 04:56:48 PM by rp928 »
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cobbadog

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2020, 06:39:48 AM »
Hi Rich and welcome to the Forum and all the fun.
It doesn't appear to be right does it! Can you contact your supplier and ask him. I haven't seen one of these as yet but believe that they are not a bad engine. You would think that if a restrictor was required it would be on both sides and that both lines would be directed at the bearings to ensure lubrication and what appears to be a fracture or a split in the oil line isn't correct.

Hopefully someone can come along and help you but also have a look back on the home page there is a tittle just for Listeroids that also may be able to help you out quickly. Well done on the uploading of the pics.

Not sure where abouts you are in the world but here in Australia there is a company that specialises in selling Listeroid engines and that is the sort of place to go looking for specs and manuals.
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rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2020, 02:30:10 PM »
Thanks Cobbadog for the reply. I took your advice and so far have read thru page 16 of the listeroid threads.

This is what I found:
https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7319.0

The pic in that thread shows the left and right oil tubes configured the same way mine is. The right side is closer to the roller bearing and like mine is not directing oil toward it. I suppose spraying a spinning crankshaft could fling oil onto the bearing but it seems odd to do it that way. I will continue to search the listeroid thread. Thanks again!
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rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2020, 06:26:31 PM »
Apparently the connecting rod struck the center distribution pipe during "quality control testing". I found a ding in the tube where it hit and caused the tube to split. When I tried to rotate the tube to inspect it, it literally fell out of the right side oil pipe. There was no resistance to turning so it would have fallen out or continued to be hit until it broke if I ran it as is.
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cobbadog

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 06:48:38 AM »
that is an odd way of lubricating a bearing, run a pressure line to it but don't allow it to spray onto the bearing. Glad you picked up on the split tube and that it can easily be fixed. What do the guys in the Listeroid section say about directing the RHS towards the bearing, I would unless there is another reason not to.
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sirpedrosa

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 09:09:56 AM »
Hi Ritch

1st, the questions:

Is the yellow arrow, the crank?
Is the orange arrow the gap between roller and crank? (if so, there there is no gap, and I think is an issue!)
Is the white arrow the cap of oil pipe making a like a T, I mean oil will be spilled to both sides?

The left pipe I think is oK, more or less directed to TRB.
The center pipe I think its damage by the con rod dipper (as far I know, listeroids dont have hollow dipper to lubricate big end)
The T end, I think is inteded to spill to TRB AND to the con rod side, in order to feed oil into the upside holes of big end.

Just my 5 cents!

BR
VP
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 09:12:16 AM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 02:41:13 AM »
Hi sirpedrosa and thanks for the reply.

You are correct. The yellow arrow is the crank, the orange arrow is the gap between the roller and crank and the white arrow is the right side oiler.

I need to take another look to check the gap between the roller and crank. The angle of the camera could make it look closer than it actually is.
I don't believe the right side T splashes oil on both sides. I think it is only open on the side pointing toward the crank. I could be wrong so I will take another look. that said, if it does oil both sides of the T it will be oiling the casting that the bearing rides in and not the bearing itself.

Regards,
Rich
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rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 02:55:25 AM »
Hi cobbadog,

I will take another look in the Listeroid section and expand my search. I guess it would have made more sense to post my question in the engine specific section. I have a lot to learn.  :-[

Regards,
Rich

that is an odd way of lubricating a bearing, run a pressure line to it but don't allow it to spray onto the bearing. Glad you picked up on the split tube and that it can easily be fixed. What do the guys in the Listeroid section say about directing the RHS towards the bearing, I would unless there is another reason not to.
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cobbadog

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2020, 07:55:39 AM »
There is a keen interest in your engine here too.
See if you can poke a short length of wire through that T piece, if so I would see if I could "re shape" the pipe to direct the oil flow towards that bearing and the reason for the outlet both sides if that is the case is to then provide oil to the big end, maybe. I am only guessing with this one.
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rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2020, 04:38:47 PM »
Well I took a closer look at the oiler T on the right side of the motor and it is open on both sides as so I think I am ok. It doesn't appear to spray directly on the bearing but on casting the bearing fits in. I have to believe this is by design and oil does get to the bearing. The spacing between the crank and bearing is larger than it appears in the picture I posted so I think I am good there too. Thanks again to sirpedrosa for the insight.

I spoke with Gary, the gentleman I made my purchase from. He is sending out a replacement for the damaged connecting tube and a few other parts the kit was missing. Sounds like he has a good supply of parts should I need anything in the future.

Regards,
Rich
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sirpedrosa

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2020, 05:26:16 PM »
Hi Rich

You mean Gary of DES?

Beware, so the right pipe is bended, in that case. Ensure it spills to the rollers of TRB, and,  the other hole aim the conrod when pump is in pressure movement. Do you get the idea?

Post some more pics to see, if there is some more issues!

BR
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

cobbadog

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2020, 06:53:35 AM »
That is good that the supplier is backing his product and is sending the damaged part as a replacement.
Out of curiosity is there enough room for that oil line with the T section on it to be pushed forward to spray oil onto the bearing and clear the crank, this is what I would do if it is possible. Since the tube has to come out if there is room bend a piece of wire to shape and when the tube is out you can easily reshape it to aim in the right place.
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rp928

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2020, 11:42:50 PM »
Yes, the supplier is Gary with DES. I received the missing parts yesterday afternoon and he is sending out a replacement oil connection tube. I hope to have that later this week or early next week. Once I have and install it I will put oil in the crankcase and spin it over by hand with the crank cover off to see how the lubrication system works. I will post an update once I have the results. BTW I don't think there is room to move the right side oil tube. Based on the size and fit I think it is where it's intended to be. If I can rotate the T to spray the bearing I will do that. I will keep you posted. 

Regards,
Rich
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cobbadog

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Re: Crankcase oil distribution pipe inspection (Listeroid DES 18/1)
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 12:34:20 PM »
Cheers, look forward to seeing how it all works out for you.
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