Author Topic: Lister lt1 fuel problem  (Read 412 times)

Ianto36

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Lister lt1 fuel problem
« on: May 10, 2020, 04:57:05 PM »
Hi Guys and Gals
After some help please! I have bought another project, another dumper fitted with a Lister LT1 engine, I cranked the engine over after unseizing the gearbox selector and it spun freely but would not start. I removed the injector and attached and turned the injector around as well as the pipe to see if it was atomising the fuel, no joy, took the injector home and watched a YouTube video on how to free the pintle with a drill and all was good, went back down to the dumper and attached the injector with the same set up and still no joy, I put my finger over the delivery pipe and cranked it and there seems to be good delivery pressure from the pump as the diesel squirts out with my finger over the end, restripped the injector and when I put fluid down the pintle pushes it out the jets.
Now here's the weird part, I took the injector up to a road roller I have with a lister ac1 and attached it to that and the fuel could be seen atomising as it should!
Any ideas?
Thanks
Ian

scott p

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 07:03:36 PM »
Perhaps the pump delivers just enough pressure to open the injector enough to just dribble fuel. The AC pump on the other hand deliverers enough pressure to really work the injector. Admittedly that would require a fine line of pressure between the two pumps but if I am reading your post correctly that is the only idea I can come up with.

Ianto36

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 07:59:30 PM »
Thanks Scott,
It's baffled me, the injector when I put it on the LT engine is drier than an otters pocket not even a dribble, but on the AC pump it works fine
Ian

mike90045

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 08:15:45 PM »
don't put your flesh over the pump outlet or injector outlet.   If high pressure diesel gets injected thru your skin, you will be very unhappy.

sirpedrosa

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem - Gauges
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 09:26:42 PM »
Hi Mike

Not everyone has gauges to confirm high pressures in fuel sistem, so each one has to be a kind of Alfred Nobel. That said I dont blame Ianto. Off course he will have some lessons hard learned.

sometime ago I tested a injection circuit with vegetal oil - and that I learned it here in LEF - not affraid of high pressure hits, but most because messing smell.

Ianto, dismantle all system, clean it, verify clearences, reassemble and try it again.

BR
VP
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 09:41:18 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

cobbadog

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 07:31:32 AM »
Do you have a free flowing fuel supply to the pump?
Fuel that comes out of the pump is just a dribble but that dribble when it is inside an injector become a huge pressure and that is what atomises the fuel. If your injector is atomising on another engine then the problem is back towards the pump or fuel supply.

Ensure that every line is clear by compressed air in both directions, that the filter is clean and your tank is also clean and the vent in the cap is not blocked. Bleed the system methodically and try again.
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glort

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2020, 01:32:13 PM »
don't put your flesh over the pump outlet or injector outlet.   If high pressure diesel gets injected thru your skin, you will be very unhappy.

Seen some Really disturbing pics of where that has happened. Absolute terrible injury and often results in amputation when the flesh dies. No real way to treat it and diesel is a terminal poison in flesh.

Much better to use Vegetable oil when doing any testing or setting up. ( or running an engine for free :0)  )
 If you do get hit, the body will just eat or store it as a fat.
Even old style injection systems can cause deep skin penetration.

Other thing is be careful not to breathe the Diesel mist from a spraying injector. Won't make bits drop off like skin penetration but it can make you feel real crook and throw up if you get enough of it.

Ianto36

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 05:54:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies Gents and I had Strong disposable gloves on when I was testing the pump delivery, I had an old boss when I was working on tippers who put his finger over an injector on a Leyland engine with serious health consequences!

I returned to the engine and once again cranked over the engine and no diesel atomised out of the injector, real head scratching time, I knew there was good pressure from the pump but why wasnít it lifting the pintle? It must have been that the spring was too much pressure on the pintle so I backed off the top of the injector and sure enough diesel started to spray from the nozzle.

Should there be a spacing washer on the top of the LT injector? As it is I have backed off the top of the injector and there is a space between the body and the top of the injector , I put the injector back and tightened down the holding clamp and I now have White smoke emitting from the exhaust on flicking the compression lever, the engine hasnít been started for years and I couldnít get it to go, donít shout at me but I think it may need a sniff of the old easy start to coax her into remembering what to do?

Thanks for all the replies
Ian

sirpedrosa

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2020, 06:11:31 PM »
Hi Ianto

Just withdraw IP delivery valve and clean it. A good clean is half of a good life, for everything!

BR
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

cobbadog

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2020, 07:06:27 AM »
A squirt of engine oil down the injector hole also helps when an engine has been sitting around a long while. some either may do the job for you but just dont be heavy handed, you have to try all sorts of ideas to get life in some of these engines.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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mike90045

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2020, 07:50:45 AM »
I'd strongly suggest using a good squirt of oil in the cylinder to help seal the rings, instead of using any jesus spray.   If the jesus spray busts a piston, jesus will be the first word out your mouth.

listard-jp2

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2020, 07:31:53 PM »

I returned to the engine and once again cranked over the engine and no diesel atomised out of the injector, real head scratching time, I knew there was good pressure from the pump but why wasnít it lifting the pintle? It must have been that the spring was too much pressure on the pintle so I backed off the top of the injector and sure enough diesel started to spray from the nozzle.


Have you tried a known good injector (outside the engine), to prove that there are no injector pump issues. You could for instance try the injector from your Petter AC engine, to prove this.


Should there be a spacing washer on the top of the LT injector?

This is unlikely to be a LT1 engine, as they were never fitted to dumper trucks.

As there are differences in injector styles. In order to help you further I need to know what Lister engine you have fitted, it could be a Lister SR1 or ST1 in which case the injector pump is enclosed within the engine, if it is a ST1 then two of the head stud nuts will be visible.

If it is a later dumper it will have a Lister flat top engine (Lister TS1 or TR1) these have high flange injector pumps and the top 1/2 of the injector pump sits outside the engine.


As it is I have backed off the top of the injector and there is a space between the body and the top of the injector
 

Sounds like you have a ST or SR1 engine, and your missing the locking nut that goes between the injector body and cap nut.

I put the injector back and tightened down the holding clamp and I now have White smoke emitting from the exhaust on flicking the compression lever, the engine hasnít been started for years and I couldnít get it to go, donít shout at me but I think it may need a sniff of the old easy start to coax her into remembering what to do?

Nothing wrong with a spray of easy start when used in moderation (not unlike Alcoholic beverages), your engine may already have provision for oil injection (as others have said to raise the starting compression) the beauty of the oil injection plunger is that it delivers a known quantity of oil into the engine. If so it will be visible protruding from the cowling by the inlet port, if not you will see a rubber blanking grommet in the cowling.

One last item to bear in mind, these Lister engines are super sensitive to how far the injector tip protrudes into the combustion chamber, it is not unusual to find several sealing washers fitted between the cylinder head and injector, if so this can make handle start engines like yours a real PITA to start. I speak from personal experience.

listard-jp2

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2020, 07:32:49 PM »
duplicate post
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 07:35:29 PM by listard-jp2 »

cobbadog

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2020, 07:04:09 AM »
Lots to think about there listard-jp2, brilliant info.
Hopefully some clear pics can be posted so that we know what it is he has.
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Ianto36

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Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2020, 04:00:39 PM »
Revisited the engine today and it's definitely an LT1, tried a whiff of easy start and still no joy, I even stripped the head off as I'm sure the exhaust was sucking and blowing but the valves were clean as a whistle!
How fast does the engine need to turn over whilst cranking?
Tried to upload some pics but it will not let me
Any other ideas? I'd love to save this dumper as it's an Aveling Barfors sd06, pretty rare as its front wheel steer and made when British Leyland took over the helm, so it's fitted with a Morris marina back axle, Land Rover steering box and smallest gearbox that I don't know who made

Any more ideas?
Cheers
Ian