Lister Engines > Original Lister Cs Engines
Electric starter
dieselspanner:
Hi All
A couple or three nights back Glort posted something to the effect that the stupid mistakes that one makes are the hardest to detect but, once found are the easiest to rectify..........
Whilst gazing at the alternator drive shaft yesterday it occurred to me that it looked shinier than I remembered, yep, it wasn't the belt slipping, it was the pulley spinning on the shaft.
Guess who, having put it all together to see how it looked, forgot to tighten the pulley taper lock? The schoolboy error was compounded by me not fitting a key - both flywheel, pulley and shaft have key ways.
As the pulley is a smaller diameter than the flywheel and on the 'inside', it wasn't easy to see what was going on, well that's my excuse!
The flywheel pulley key way is a little smaller than the 3/8" one common to the shaft and pulley so I knocked up a hermaphrodite key from a scrap of 10mm steel AND added witness marks to the flywheel and pulley. If it moves again I'll know.
The upshot of all this is that the starter will now turn the Lister over with no trouble, even from a standing start, with the crank at BDC, just before the compression stroke, and with the compression on high.
It starts easier on high (as was the original intention) but 7/8 'firing strokes' and it fired up the lower compression.
Again it was around 15 degrees in the barn, but I feel colder weather will be far less of a problem.
I believe from what I've read (on here!) that the Startomatics had a blanking plug in place of the change over valve and thicker gaskets (or maybe a spacer) under the cylinder to achieve a compression ratio somewhere between high and low, If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be grateful.
In conclusion I'd say that the experiment is a roaring success. with the exception of the water jetted boss (I didn't have a lathe at that point) everything was done with hand tools and MMA - stick - welding, £50 / £75 down the scrap yard, maybe even less, depending on what you go for, and there you go.
If you can find something with a larger diameter flywheel and get the starter between the Lister and the alternator it's going to look neater and more compact.
Bleeding is going to be a lot easier too.
Add a 12v car alternator or a 220v ac / 12 dc charger to top the battery up and reliable push button start is yours.
It's definitely spurred me on in the direction of solenoid operated shut down system and a remote watch keeping panel, I suppose that's well on the way to re inventing the 'Startomatic', all suggestions gratefully received...
Cheers
Stef
listeroil:
--- Quote ---I believe from what I've read (on here!) that the Startomatics had a blanking plug in place of the change over valve and thicker gaskets (or maybe a spacer) under the cylinder to achieve a compression ratio somewhere between high and low, If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be grateful.=
--- End quote ---
The 6/1 has the changeover and changes the compression ratio from 19 to 1 high comp to 16 to 1 low comp.
The 8/1 has no changeover valve and compression ratio is 17.5 to 1.
With the changeover valve fully screwed in it is the same as the plug in the 8/1. Therefore if you change the piston to head clearance from the 6/1 setting of 0.045 to 0.050 to the 8/1 setting of 0.075 to 0.080 you will be fine. The 8/1 comes with a 0.020 steel spacer but you can make up the difference with a corn flakes packet gasket.
dieselspanner:
Thanks for that, Listeroil.
Exactly the answer I was hoping for!
Looks like I'd over estimated the CS compression by around 20%, I guess that makes it a bit easier on the Landy starter, dropping the ratio to 17.5 to 1 would help a little more, again as Glort has said, if it cranks over for a few turns before it runs up it's not going to hurt and slinging the oil about before ignition can only help.
Next step then, is to pull the top end and and add a spacer under the cylinder, hand crafted from the traditional breakfast cereal packet.
Here, in France, Lidl's cheapest beer comes in a 24 bottle 'slab' and serves just as well, it feels a little bit more 'compression resistant' than cereal packets. We seem to have more of it available, for some reason......
As a further aside, the over spray between the teeth on the flywheel
Gives a good indication of how well the starter motor teeth are meshing when it comes to setting the alignment up.
Cheers
Stef
dieselspanner:
Hi All
So, after successfully mounting a starter motor to the CS I began thinking about a starter system. Wanting to use the fuel shut off cam to close the rack I went down the car door locking solenoid track.
The cheapest way to buy them was as an aftermarket kit, £28 from China via eBay, delivered to France.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193124312207
The kit contained 4 solenoids, bracketry, two remotes and the control unit.
Having opened the box I swiftly came to the conclusion that I may well be able to use the whole kit, remotes and all. It has connections for locking the door (s) from the inside of the vehicle that would serve well for ‘local’ control.
I fitted a solenoid to the fuel shut off lever but as it was less than positive I added an extra spring behind and inline with the lever to render it ‘bi-stable’ - ie, it flips through the central position and rests at either end of it’s travel under tension. With a bit of adjustment that worked really well.
To change the direction of pull, the unit reverses the polarity of the short ‘pulse’ to the solenoid, when changing from ‘lock’ to ‘unlock’ (now start and stop) Using a diode on a second solenoid feed meant that there was only a pulse on the unlock (start) pulse.
I tried to use this pulse to engage the starter motor
I played about with a 12v H3y - 2, 0 to 10 seconds delay timer and a standard auto relay, but as I understand it, this, and every other timer I can find, delays the power rather than supply it for the specified time.
So, please can anyone point me towards a timer that, on receiving a short 12v pulse, latches on and supplies 12v for between 0 and 10 seconds, (adjustable, to allow for summer and winter starting) and then unlatches / resets until the next pulse.
I realise this is an ideal Arduino or Raspberry Pie situation, but as I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I do to electronics what grit does to clockwork, (Terry Prachett) So I’m looking for something off the shelf, with two wires (+ & - !) for supply, and a switched contact capable of operating the starter solenoid. If this means feeding via a relay that's fine.
As usual, all comments, help and criticism, positive or not, are welcome!!
Cheers
Stef
sirpedrosa:
Hi Stef
I was here wondering, why you want your Lister with that modern electric and electronic junk?
The fun of a Lister - for me, I'm talking just in my case - is to be runned attended by owner.
Its a huge pleasure to be ask: Why um run a museum relique, instead of a modern generator enclosed and insulated and quiet?
And you answer: Because I can, I like, and I rebuilded it. Look at this fine piece of mechanical engeniring?
Stef, think in your health, and tell us if in a cold morning (whatever) a few turns at start handle are, or not, a good exercise?
After that, a slice of cheese on a baguette, with a bordeaux, or a beaujolais. (I'm already salivating)
Stay safe, please.
VP
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