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Author Topic: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards  (Read 858 times)

Dmatt

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LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« on: April 10, 2020, 11:33:47 PM »
Hello I'm new here. Not sure what I'm doing but am trying to post a link to my LR1 hoping for some answer if any one can help me out. See attached link please.
Thank you
Watch "Lister Petter LR1 realy messed up" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/uC7iR3cufGM
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 12:07:25 AM by Dmatt »

sirpedrosa

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2020, 09:45:22 AM »
Hi Dmatt

I'm afraid it will be straight forward: strip all down and rebuild with parts in proper place. There is a manual indicating where parts go.

BR
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

Cockie

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 10:45:42 AM »
Dmatt,

I've put this up on the Lister LD, SL ,LR ,SR & LT diesel stationary engine group on Facebook as I'm wondering how your engine does this as well. That's the problem being an electrician doing engine work, I did 25 years as a sparkie.

Cockie

Cockie

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2020, 11:02:50 AM »
Dmatt,

Youtube of manual crank start, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmOtX7z0otk just to make sure your rotation is correct.

Cockie

cobbadog

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 12:27:46 PM »
G'Day and welcome Dmatt to the forum.
You do have some issues dont you. Because I couldn't see too well the first thing is which direction is the engine running?
When standing on the hand crank side it should be running clockwise.
If not somehow it is running backwards and for this to happen and the way it is so very hard to start I think this is what is happening.
Have you done any work on this engine or someone before you? If so it is time to strip back the layers a bit at a time until you find out what is so very wrong. We can only guess at the moment and I'm sure there are members here that are willing to help.
I would start by removing the valve cover  and rotate the engine by hand in the correct direction watch carfully for which valves open and close and at what time. This will give you and others a better idea to the problem.
Download a workshop manual, I found one by using Google but if you have a look around this site there maybe one here somewhere. Let us know how you get on and the more information you can tell us the better we can be at helping.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

Dmatt

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 02:57:58 PM »
Yes thank you. The engine is running the correct clockwise direction not backwards. No I've not been I to this engine it was given to me more than 15 years ago. I do have some what of a Manuel. Its seems from what you are all saying its probably been put together incorrectly by someone previously.  I'll look at the valves opening and the time they are opening as I can see the Mark's on the flywheel. Will more than likely make another video of that to be sure I'm doing that correctly. Thank you

Dmatt

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2020, 12:03:35 AM »
Okay guys I opened a few things up and checked it out with a new video. As I've said before it starts and runs in the right clockwise direction but exhaust comes out the intake and intake air goes in thru the exhaust.  See video link let me know your thoughts.

Watch "SL1 inside" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/SqkgA-lw1wM

sirpedrosa

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2020, 12:39:35 AM »
Hi Dmatt

I could see the serial in the flywheel, and it has a Z, that means this engine runs counterclock, seen from fly.

This is a xxxx LR1Z17 - reverse 1967.

Now you must figure how put it straight, namely put manifolds in the wright place, start engine turning in wright direction, etc, etc...

Cheers
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!

Dmatt

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2020, 01:09:43 AM »
No way that is awesome. Someone has put this on there somewhere over time then right? It did ce with a second starter without a solenoid. Maybe that's a counter rotation starter.

Dmatt

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 01:12:51 AM »
The tag on the engine is the same serial. Maybe just the wrong starter. Need to find me a start handle now not just the electric starter.

glort

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 01:22:14 AM »

I was wondering about the starter being connected reverse polarity but didn't see that as being a possibility.  I figured even if it was, the solenoid would pull the wrong way and not engage.... or would it?

Never tried it so what would happen if a starter was wired in reverse?  Showers of sparks come to mind but I'm not sure they have any Diodes or things that would do that.  Maybe they would turn backwards?

Anyone tried deliberately or otherwise?

Willw

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 02:25:58 AM »
The starter is turning the engine in the wrong direction and it is difficult to start but it runs backward.
Judging by the shape of your fan shroud, your flywheel should be turning counterclockwise, but you indicate in the video that it is turning clockwise.
Look at the shape of the fan shroud on my LR2A, even though in the video mine appears to be running clockwise it is actually running counterclockwise, just as yours appears to be turning counterclockwise but you indicate with your finger that it is turning clockwise. (Videos show it opposite from the actual direction it is turning).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXQBZ1JOmg8

In my video you can see me turning my camshaft counterclockwise to start it; if your cam is turning clockwise the engine is running in reverse. This would explain simply why it is exhausting through the intake and sucking through the exhaust.

Here is another video of an anti-clockwise LR1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwDnq15RMZI

A clockwise rotating one, you can clearly see the flywheel turning clockwise when he cranks it but as soon as the smoke clears the flywheel appears to be turning counterclockwise. Note the shape of the fan shroud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOYrE-UcvY4&t=31s

https://diesel-electric.us/ should be able to supply the correct hand or electric starter for your application.
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Willw

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2020, 02:33:00 AM »
The hand starters can be changed for use either direction by rotating the spring loaded pin that engages the camshaft around 180 degrees.

I use mine in both directions depending on which rotation I need for the engine I am currently starting.
Daily driver '97 GMC W4 tipper on WVO/Kerosene mix.
6/1 clone standby generator.
Too many projects.

Willw

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2020, 02:51:53 AM »
Looking at the valves, the intake valve should start to open just as the exhaust valve is finishing closing when the engine is turning in the correct direction.

Opposite to this means that it is rotating opposite to the design of the camshaft (placement of the cam lobes), which is what determines the direction of the engine running properly.

I'll bet you a hundred dollars that it will start easier and run a lot better with less smoke if you start it counterclockwise.
Daily driver '97 GMC W4 tipper on WVO/Kerosene mix.
6/1 clone standby generator.
Too many projects.

Dmatt

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Re: LR1 intake and exhaust backwards
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 03:32:23 AM »
Hey you all thank you for the help. It is as you guys thought a counter rotator and the previous owner had a clock ways starter on it. There was also a second starter with a broken solenoid after swapping solenoids and throwing that starter on away it went. See video

Watch "Its alive. LD1" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/39LYiB5dG74