Author Topic: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R  (Read 897 times)

veggie

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AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« on: March 11, 2020, 08:04:21 PM »
Far anyone who is planning to replace an injector pump or modify the injection timing by adjusting the shim pack thickness you may find this helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ZrAAYGt40
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

oldgoat

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2020, 11:29:04 AM »
Classy mechanic.  Doing up injection fittings with multigrips and bending injection pipes

dax021

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2020, 07:11:35 AM »
Was also the first thing that i noticed.  What a wanker.

glort

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2020, 09:14:12 AM »

Nothing in that vid bar how to undo 3 bolts incorrectly and one fitting, Incorectly, and put them back again.

I thought there was going to be something on how to know when you had the correct amount of shims or how to time the things properly.
So much for that!  :0(

veggie

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2020, 11:06:13 PM »
Agreed, very simplistic
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw


glort

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veggie

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2020, 02:51:42 PM »

So these engine are only running only 12 to 14 degrees advance according to that manual.
I would have thought they would run 18 to 20 like most diesels I am familiar with.
I suppose the short stroke has something to do with it.
It doesn't explain why they knock an hammer so much.

Glort, from your experience, where is a good zone to target in order to quiet them down?
Something like 9 to 11 degrees?
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

hwew

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2020, 09:52:37 PM »
I just looked at this and the specs printed in the Yanmar manual might not work for the Chinese clones.
Im looking in my owners manual for my clones and it reads as follows:

Initial angle of fuel delivery
170F & 178F21 degrees + or - 1 degree
186F22 degrees + or - 1 degree

I assume its BTDC

It seems like the specs in my manual is more in line with the norm.
12 to 14 degrees seem to be incorrect for the clones. It might have something to do with how the injector pump and injector are set up on the Yanmar engines.

I know most diesels had the timing bumped up 1 or 2 degrees to help with emissions, but 8 or 10 degrees up from 12 or 14 degrees seems excessive. I just dont understand why Yanmar posted these numbers. I just dont know, Im just guessing. We probably wont know until both identical displacement Yanmar and clone engines are blueprinted to see what the differences are.

It seems like the Yanmar and clone engine pump pressures are the same. (200 Kafka/cm2)

I guess the safest way is to do a fuel time test on the clones first to see where it is before re-timing the pump.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 12:39:11 AM by hwew »

veggie

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2020, 11:33:04 PM »

Good catch hwew. I personally have only seen numbers in the 18 - 20 range.
(Except for the advanced computer controlled variable timing automotive diesel engines. VW, BMW, Merc)
 
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

glort

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2020, 12:55:38 AM »

Glort, from your experience, where is a good zone to target in order to quiet them down?
Something like 9 to 11 degrees?

You are talking way too edumacated and technical for me mate.
I just made up a stack of cardboard shims, put some in there, ran the engine and put some more in there till it sounded like it wasn't going to self destruct. Would not have the faintest what the actual timing was.

One I did is very quiet ( relatively) and I highly suspect the timing is a bit retarded BUT, it starts easy, runs clean and I wasn't chasing max power out the thing so I haven't changed it in all the years since I did it.

I'm quite big on the " Not too Bright" method.  For years I used to modify and build 2 stroke engines. I always set the points gap by holding the HT lead and giving the motor a spin without the plug in it. When the thing felt like it was going to take my arm  clean off, it was right.
Stupid as that sounds, I came across several engines owned by other people that I set up like that and they said they never went better even though where I put them was often a LONG way from where they should have been.

Thankfully electronic modules came along that eliminated the points and condenser.
 My arm does still twitch a bit for not particular reason!  :0)


hwew

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2020, 01:38:54 AM »

Good catch hwew. I personally have only seen numbers in the 18 - 20 range.
(Except for the advanced computer controlled variable timing automotive diesel engines. VW, BMW, Merc)

Ive seen numbers from 17 to 25.5 degrees BTDC on stationary diesels. Never 12 to 14.

To be safe, I would pull off the air shroud and do a fuel spill test on the injector pump to see where the engine is timed. If its at 21 shim the pump to 18 and give it a try. If it starts ok, runs good and seems to have good power without smoking try retarding it more. Eventually you will reach the point where you will notice loss of power, white smoke and possibly rough running. Im curious, and want to check timing on one of my engines but I wont be ready until the engine is mounted.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 06:51:45 AM by hwew »

glort

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2020, 11:23:07 AM »

One thing with Diesels is they should have that Charismatic Knock when they are right. 
The knock is compression as well as timing and it's pretty clear on these engines although the ones I have had sound like they are being knocked with a sledge hammer.  The flywheels were ringing like bells.

The quite one I have only has a very feint knock which is why I think it's a bit retarded.

On cars I can tell straight away how good the engine is by that sound. If it's crisp and sharp, the compression is good. If it's dull and subdued, Probably worn and on the way out. Cars don't tend to be off on the diesel timing in my experience because very few people touch injector pumps so they are usualy set right and Locked in and they don't move.

 If the sound a diesel makes is metallic and ringing like these China engines were, run.... or on the China diesels, shim the pump out.
A lot.

hwew

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2020, 01:08:49 PM »
Im more concerned about reducing stress on bearings, rods, crank, pistons... Since Im going to be running the engine below 3100 or 2600 rpm. Im thinking of a possibility of using the ST-10 head along with the heavy 8 groove pulleys. Im hoping to get 2400 watts continuous to 3600  watts surge out of the unit. The engine will be spinning lots of inertia while working to keep it at a speed below max rated speed I want to reduce additional stress some. I remember reading in a Kohler/Hatz air cooled diesel engine service manual about 9 years ago. It mentioned that thicker head gaskets are available. Im thinking that installing a thicker head gasket on engines with high inertia loads should help reduce stress caused by spinning loads that have high inertia at lower RPMs.

One good example of high inertia loads on a piece of power equipment is a small home owners gas powered wood chipper. It takes a long time to spin up to rated speed right after starting. And than the engine is subjected to constant abuse when pushing branches through and constantly slowing down the engine below its running speed. This is hard on any engine.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 05:00:39 PM by hwew »

glort

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Re: AIr Cooled Chinese L186 Diesel Injector Pump R&R
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2020, 02:13:26 PM »

to help reduce stress caused by spinning loads that have high inertia.

This makes no sense to me at all.
The whole concept of CS listers is a large, heavy flywheel and slow speed. Some people put extra flywheels on to reduce flicker. If does not matter if it's the flywheel or rotating mass of the load, they have high inertia as do all of the traditional type generators like you want to use.  Never heard of anyone saying they cause " additional stress" ?  Additional to what exactly over any other load??

Never heard of anyone complaining about inertia on a generator before. It's the lack of it that gives problems.   That's what gives reactive power and why heavy engines with large flywheels like listers are so well thought of. It is in fact the best thing you can have on a generator.  It's what STOPS them bogging down when heavy loads are dumped on them and voltage sag which the engine then tends to over fuel on when the governor gives it everything to get the revs back up.
And trust me, These engines WILL over fuel when bogged down.  That's what causes stress not rotating mass!

I also strongly question the idea of using 2 head gaskets to reduce compression. That is widely known in engineering/ mechanical circles to be hackery and a very bad practice. No idea why you would want to reduce compression on a diesel? Would only make for harder starting for one thing and have great potential for poorer combustion... particularly if you were thinking of burning veg, Bio or WMO.  They are all harder to light off and the more compression the better.

Also Gaskets are meant for sealing, not adding length to Cylinders.

If you want to reduce the speed of an engine then you have to derate the power as well. What engine are you intending to run?
An ST 10 is an over sized generator for a 178 to a 186 so you would want to be more concerned about limiting the load on the head to stop  stressing the engine rather than the rotating mass.
In any case if you are belt driving the head there is an amount of slip and cushioning in the belt so really not sure what you are concerned about??

Weren't you all Gung ho about some Briggs twin a while back on a generator and thought that was the best thing sliced bread? 
Seem to remember you wouldn't permit a less than glowing comment about it.
What happened to that thing??