Author Topic: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2  (Read 2010 times)

cobbadog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2020, 10:37:38 AM »
I am not sure of the rules here in Oz but is it legal to run oil in the diesel cars n trucks? Not that it bothers me but in the UK they hand out huge fines for running on fish n chip oil as the government isn't making their money from the siesel.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

dieselspanner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 657
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2020, 01:26:27 PM »
Last I looked it was legal to use up to 2500 litres of veg oil as fuel in the UK without informing the authorities.

As there's no checks ypou can practially do what you like aslong as it's for personal transport, there's not a lot who bother tho'.

A few years back there was a EEC ruling to that effect and every member country took it up with the exception of France - where I live!

In practise here the Gendarmes, who motivated are generally 'different motivated' and as dipping tanks is dirty and impinges on the coffee and lunch breaks it's at the bottom of their list.

Running on 'Red', diesel that has been dyed to show it's taxed at a lower rate for agriculture and construction machinery will get you inro all sorts of - expensive - bother, right across Europe.

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2020, 12:48:13 AM »
I am not sure of the rules here in Oz but is it legal to run oil in the diesel cars n trucks? Not that it bothers me but in the UK they hand out huge fines for running on fish n chip oil as the government isn't making their money from the siesel.

The LAW in oz to my fairly complete knowledge has NEVER been enforced, in that it is completely Legal to run straight OIL in vehicles, However.... If you blend an excisable fuel with the oil such as Diesel, petrol or Biodiesel ( which is in fact taxable, not that anyone has ever paid it)  Then, the WHOLE amount of that fuel is due for road tax.

IE: Straight oil= completely free of any tax Duty.
Put 2/5/10L of petrol or diesel in 100L of oil and the WHOLE amount of the blended oil and whatever is due for Tax.

Now, the Kicker is, I know of a guy probably 15 years or so ago when the biofuels craze was at it's peak, that went to a taxation office and TRIED to pay the Tax. They had never heard of it but looked it up and found it but there was no Allocation/ account to deposit the funds to so they could/ would not take the payment. The guy followed it up a number of times and NEVER heard anything back about it.

There is certainly no one dipping tanks in this country looking for non taxed fuel and in practical terms, if they did they would have to test a sample to confirm it had petrol/ diesel or bio ( also NEVER paid tax on here) to confirm what was in it.  You then have complications with other things like if the additive was something like Turps which I have used which is non taxable or aviation fuel which is also non taxable.

The practical up shot is it would simply cost way to much to Police the matter than what the few people doing it could ever be fined if caught to make the exercise worth while.  Same as Biodiesel.  No one has ever been pinged for that and 99% of cops wouldn't know what it was anyway and there are no gubbermint people testing for it.

Of course the thing is, these days if you did get copped, you'd make a song and dance about trying to save the planet by using renewable fuels and reduce emissions and all that green Bullshit and say you were going to go to the media and they wouldn't be able to drop the case fast enough.

  I have run tens of thousands of litres of oil, blended and otherwise and once got Pulled over at a roadside Drug testing operation because of the smell of the vehicle.  Copper had heard of running veg but never knew anyone did it.
Called off the search dog as soon as I explained and showed him the 200 L in the back I was taking up to Brisbane for a road trip.

I had the last laugh on his Commando wannabe Jnr  Gun ho pleb when he told me they pulled me over for the search because they could smell  something weird. I asked him What the Fk did you think I was carrying if you could smell it wafting outside the car? A whole meth lab or something?.  Snr officer saw the funny side, Gestapo Jnr didn't. 

Couldn't get me and my daughter who were pissing ourselves laughing out of there fast enough then.

TBH, I WOULDN"T  run straight diesel these days without something in it.  It is very dry and on the limit of what most pumps will take. A bit of oil, Bio or 2 stroke increases the Lubricity several magnitudes and FAR better and cheaper than any commercial additive as well. In tests I have seen, the great majority of those additives are useless.

cobbadog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2020, 10:03:34 AM »
Cheers Glort, That rule and story about the guy trying to pay that tax vaguely rings a bell.
I bet the copper that was talking to you about the suspicious aroma got awfully hungry after you left and went to get a bucket of donuts.
The reason I asked is very timely, I am about to start a rebuild on an early Aussie diesel engine, a McDonald Super Imperial Diesel SE model and I thought of running it on oil and not diesel to make the crowd more hungry to buy tucker at the rallies we attend not to mention other displayers. I have an awful long way ahead of me to get this running and hopfully it will start tomorrow and over the weekend. I have to try and make one out of the two I have here. It runs what is called a Bronz or Hyvid injection system, bloody strange.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

listeroil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2020, 03:55:15 PM »
I can confirm that it is legal to use 2500 litres WVO or biodiesel tax free in the UK.

From Wikipedia
The changes came into effect on June 30, 2007. There is no longer a requirement to register to pay duty on vegetable oil used as road fuel for those who "produce" or use less than 2,500 litres per year.

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2020, 04:30:47 PM »

I am about to start a rebuild on an early Aussie diesel engine, a McDonald Super Imperial Diesel SE model and I thought of running it on oil and not diesel to make the crowd more hungry to buy tucker at the rallies we attend not to mention other displayers.

I know of those engines. Be really nice to have a bit of Aussie history like that. Other one I'd like of course is a southern Cross or an R&T.

Running veg will certainly get you plenty of questions and attention.
I went to the local rally a few years back in the patrol running veg.  I had people waiting to ask me questions before I got out the thing in the car park! They sniffed me out, Literally. Smelt it from down the road and caught up to me and were quite excited when I went the same place they were.   Spoke to them a bit then a bit later wandering around I heard someone say, Look, there is the guy there. I looked around for " The guy"  thinking it must be someone famous  only to discover they were talking about me.
 Started talking to them and the crowd sort of grew as people asked questions and the next thing I knew people were 5 deep in front of me. That was new.

Every one says " I have heard of it but never known anyone that Did it". Polite way of saying  " I thought it was all BS and no one could be crazy enough to do something like that!"

The only thing with your engine may be the Compression and possibly injection pressures. Injection isn't the thing people make it out to be and tests I saw years ago where they bumped the pressure beyond recommended to High as it would go made no difference. These might run  lower than taken for granted with more modern mechanical pumps.  If they are under 15,000 PSI,  might have to take that into account.

Compression also plays a big part  running oil but mainly the starting.  You could always blend  the oil with some petrol If it's like 12 or 14:1 or like I did with the wifes old merc, twin tank it and put a hot mix in the start up.  Maybe 20% petrol, 20% kero.  Run like crap under load ( although if it's low comp might love it) but it will start easy.

If you are rebuilding it and there is provision, bump the timing about 5o forward if you want to run oil. That will help it a lot as well.
Instead of water cooling it you could oil cool it and hook the thing up to a pump circulating the oil through a filter and a sprayer and demonstrate how to process oil as well.

Golden rules with oil are make it clean and make it dry.

cobbadog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2020, 04:34:03 AM »
Cheers Glort,
I know this engine is 'off topic' for this forum but I just mentioned it and now I'm glad I did.
The compression ratio is adjustable by adding shims to the conrod. It is an odd thing to do but can be done without stripping the engine just remove a cover and undo the big end bolts and the conrod separates from the 2 halves of the big end and you add or subtract shims.
The injection system is totally unique, it is called a Hivid or Brons system, the oddest thing you will ever see and requires a lot of stuffing about when it is time to clean and adjust it ready for use. Fortunately I do have a a booklet on this to help sort me out.
It sprays the diesel into a fuel cup/bowl inside the head before it enters the cylinder, similar to the MF35 4 cylinder head.
Anyway, I've bore this forum long enough on my Mac in this forum of Listers, unless you need to know more.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

snowman18

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2020, 06:20:26 AM »
Cheers Glort,
I know this engine is 'off topic' for this forum but I just mentioned it and now I'm glad I did.
The compression ratio is adjustable by adding shims to the conrod. It is an odd thing to do but can be done without stripping the engine just remove a cover and undo the big end bolts and the conrod separates from the 2 halves of the big end and you add or subtract shims.
The injection system is totally unique, it is called a Hivid or Brons system, the oddest thing you will ever see and requires a lot of stuffing about when it is time to clean and adjust it ready for use. Fortunately I do have a a booklet on this to help sort me out.
It sprays the diesel into a fuel cup/bowl inside the head before it enters the cylinder, similar to the MF35 4 cylinder head.
Anyway, I've bore this forum long enough on my Mac in this forum of Listers, unless you need to know more.

From what you describe adding or removing con rod shims on the big end indicates this connecting rod uses a poured babbit bearing which predates split shells.

Proper bearing clearances are made by adding or removing shims, the art of pouring a new babbit bearing is almost a lost art.

Currently I have a silage chopper with babbit bearings used on the revolving cutter head, the little Hercules engine on the Hobart gen set uses poured babbit then also the Wisconsin VG4D.

A few engine restorers have the babbit removed then have the big end machines to accept split shells, but you could go the opposite and oversize the big end for babbit.

When making a babbit bearing the shims are in place before the babbit is poured, this allows for corrections as the bearing wears by removing shims.

I think babbit bearings are kinda neat in  that a roadside repair can be carried out, small fire to met your babbit in an old tin can, some asbestos plumbers rope to seal the ends.

I've heard stories of people using shoe leather to temporary fix a bad bearing in the ol model t's

Twenty-Five Hundred Miles and Two Leather Rod Bearings Later


http://theoldmotor.com/?p=149647

« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 06:38:45 AM by snowman18 »

snowman18

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2020, 06:31:03 AM »
Some people are a waste of oxygen, the kid who received the Lister after installing the new connecting rod shells decided to turn the engine over on the starter then release the compression levers.

Since he was waiting on the fuel pump push rod had not added any oil in the engine, there was enough fuel in the lines and filter. Guess what, the engine fired up and the kid was clueless how to shut it down.

The engine seized before running out of fuel.





dax021

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2020, 08:04:07 AM »
No, that is so sad.  The idiot should be keelhauled and if he survives, be forced to rebuild under supervision, at his cost.

snowman18

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2020, 05:59:28 PM »
No, that is so sad.  The idiot should be keelhauled and if he survives, be forced to rebuild under supervision, at his cost.

karma  :laugh:


glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2020, 01:30:58 AM »
Some people are a waste of oxygen, the kid who received the Lister after installing the new connecting rod shells decided to turn the engine over on the starter then release the compression levers.

I'm loosing track?
I thought you donated the Kohler to the young bloke?

Don't be too hard on him. He was probably just excited and inquisitive and didn't think things through.
If I had 10 Bux for all the stupid things I have done that I should have known better, I'd both be a rich man and have a hell of a lot less regrets and anxiety!  :0)

He'll probably be kicking and hating himself over it anyway.
The idea of helping him rebuild it at his cost is a good one.  It would probably teach him so much and turn one of his life long regrets into something he can look back on with some contentment instead of shame.

I have had a few things like that and I am eternally grateful and appreciative of those that helped me.



snowman18

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2020, 07:07:37 AM »
Some people are a waste of oxygen, the kid who received the Lister after installing the new connecting rod shells decided to turn the engine over on the starter then release the compression levers.

I'm loosing track?
I thought you donated the Kohler to the young bloke?

Don't be too hard on him. He was probably just excited and inquisitive and didn't think things through.
If I had 10 Bux for all the stupid things I have done that I should have known better, I'd both be a rich man and have a hell of a lot less regrets and anxiety!  :0)

He'll probably be kicking and hating himself over it anyway.
The idea of helping him rebuild it at his cost is a good one.  It would probably teach him so much and turn one of his life long regrets into something he can look back on with some contentment instead of shame.

I have had a few things like that and I am eternally grateful and appreciative of those that helped me.

Taylor is not a friend, just a neighbor of whom I was aware is living off grid. i gifted the generator to him then when it left my yard became history.

He's in his mid thirty's by my standards still a kid.

dax021

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2020, 07:30:02 AM »
Taylor is not a friend, just a neighbor of whom I was aware is living off grid. i gifted the generator to him then when it left my yard became history.

He's in his mid thirty's by my standards still a kid.
[/quote]

I sense some hostility here.  Glort is obviously a far better person than I (and probably loads more sensible), as I would be livid with the guy and certainly would let him know

snowman18

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Kohlor 8.5 kw with Lister SR2
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2020, 08:31:23 AM »
Taylor is not a friend, just a neighbor of whom I was aware is living off grid. i gifted the generator to him then when it left my yard became history.

He's in his mid thirty's by my standards still a kid.

I sense some hostility here.  Glort is obviously a far better person than I (and probably loads more sensible), as I would be livid with the guy and certainly would let him know
[/quote]\

Vehicle safety inspections are required in this province which i have no issue with, I have a copy of the inspection manual and go over any new junker we purchase making the necessary repairs before taking the vehicle to the shop for it's pedigree.

The safety sheet the from the motor vehicle inspection branch has multiple choices, brake linings and drums require the measurements be written in.

Taylor did the safety on an 06 Dodge Ram and came up an estimate for $3,000.00 in repairs, once the paper work for the safety is done you either junk the vehicle or do the repairs but there;s nothing to say you can not take it to another shop. Which is what i did with the request they save me the parts removed.

The parts he declared faulty was all steering geometry and his hop does not have an alignment rack, the shop that did the work has a rack in addition I requested moog replacement parts.

Later on I had learned that I could have challenged the inspection, the MV would have sent out an inspector to double check  the inspection.

Any how after that lesson it is easier to deal with the shop that did the final work, now here's the clincher.

When Taylor came to pcik up the generator he flat out said that there would be no favors at the shop, I said no problem as you may have noticed I no longer have been using your services.

All he had to do was pick up free generator, a brand new set of connecting rod bearings and 4 new injector nozzles and go home.

Instead he had to beak off thinking the generator was somehow a bribe or that he would be otherwise obligated.

Gift and Free by no means implies any obligation.

Copy of the first email had sent Taylor.

Taylor if your interested I'm going to gift you the Kohler 8.5 Kw diesel generator, it has the Lister SR2 diesel engine, comes with a new set of connecting rod bearings. Did not really need  them, one con rod cap was removed for inspection but to damn cold at the time to install the new bearing.

Output is 8.5KW 120/240 volts, the gen head is the starter.

If your interested I'll move the generator towards the front of the shop for loading, I have an overhead rail and chain falls for lifting.

It's free, don't need two. This evening after your off work if you can make it on such short notice, otherwise advise time and date that works for you.

Gill



« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 08:42:14 AM by snowman18 »