Author Topic: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor  (Read 3340 times)

cujet

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Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« on: February 27, 2020, 02:29:20 PM »
I have 2 Listeroids, a 6/1 that's cranked up to a 7.5/1 by raising the RPM and a 20/2 that's slowed down a bit. Both engines have automotive mufflers and are quiet enough for my location. However, I absolutely despise the smell of diesel exhaust and while both engines have clear exhaust when operating, they do have enough odor to be bothersome.

Years ago, I remember some effort was being made to develop an emissions compliant Listeroid. That's not my goal here.

What I've been thinking about is purchasing a diesel specific catalytic converter and mounting it as close to the head as possible. I have TIG welding equipment and it would be quite easy to weld a flange that installs it directly on the head. Yes, I know most diesel owners desire to "delete" the emissions equipment. However, I have sufficient power, and I'm sure any HP loss would be minimal with a low restriction catalyst.

What I'm not sure about is whether it would help, and whether or not it would actually "light off" and function.

Has anyone done such a thing?
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veggie

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2020, 09:39:13 PM »

cujet,   long time !  :)

To my knowledge a Cat Converter only works on gasoline emissions.
Diesels must use a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) which also reduces odour considerably.
New diesels have a fuel re-burn system which introduces fuel into the hot exhaust stream just downstream from the engine to create additional combustion in the DPF. This helps to burn the particulates and partially clean the DPF. Eventually they do clog.
In the case of my diesel the "regen" burn cycle lasts approx 10 minutes every 7 hours of driving.

I heard somewhere that in Europe they have a fuel additive which changes the diesel exhaust odour to something less offensive.
I have not researched to see if anyone here carries it in North America.

cheers,
veggie
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AdeV

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2020, 09:53:46 PM »

I heard somewhere that in Europe they have a fuel additive which changes the diesel exhaust odour to something less offensive.
I have not researched to see if anyone here carries it in North America.


Sort of - it's not a fuel additive, it's an exhaust catalyzer, called AdBlue. It's purpose is to reduce NOx emissions to something sensible. I couldn't tell you if it affects the exhaust smell at all, it's currently mainly used in large commercial vehicles, although some passenger vehicles now run it as well.

Adblue is a urea based chemical. I'm not sure exactly how it's applied, except it's a liquid that's injected into the exhaust stream somewhere. Some googling might come up with enough info to allow you to experiment & see if it does reduce the odour at all. I suspect your only other option would be to filter it to an insane degree.

An EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) system might help too - it's just a small pipe joining the exhaust to the inlet, and allows some of the exhaust gas back in with a fresh intake charge. Most diesel cars have an EGR valve somewhere which inevitably - and expensively - goes wrong. I'm not sure what it's purpose is, maybe they don't run well on exhaust gas when cold or something?
Cheers!
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saba

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2020, 01:43:39 AM »
Its like adev says, it's urea (cow piss} just started working with it so it's still sort of new to me. Big cat 3516 I think ? then up in the exhaust there is a nozzle which blows in the urea with air, behind that there is something that looks like a catalizer box. units with honeybee grid from keramics, further up the funnel we have the soot filter with a burner stove underneath. Every 4 hours or so it's burning the filters clean. doesn't look like something  that would work on a lister.

I just moved here so not so much hands on experience yet. Didn't go up the funnel to check for the smell but I can tell you it's really clean what comes out. Under full load there is no sign of exhaust

For smell try vegetable oil
Or add natural gas or propane to your intake, you can run it 90% gas just use the diesel to ignite.

Bernhard

 

cujet

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2020, 11:20:13 PM »
Thanks all. I work in the aviation industry, so I have quite a supply of Jet-A. Currently about 500 gallons.
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AdeV

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2020, 11:27:57 PM »
Thanks all. I work in the aviation industry, so I have quite a supply of Jet-A. Currently about 500 gallons.

Jet-A is basically fancy Kerosene isn't it? All I'd say is - does it have enough lubricity (unlike Kero) to prevent your fuel pump from seizing? Also - from what I recall of flying - burning Jet-A smells a lot like a diesel...
Cheers!
Ade.
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cujet

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2020, 11:43:56 PM »
I am going to give it a try. There are diesel specific catalysts that light off at 200 deg C. It should work. Maybe I can find one from a VW.
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mike90045

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2020, 01:12:50 AM »
My 6/1 under load, gets the exhaust pipe all the way up to about 330F ( 165C ) and I suppose the gas is a little bit hotter than that, but I don't have much hope that it will fire off a 200C cat.  But try it if you got the parts

cujet

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2020, 01:30:13 PM »
  - [Jet-A] does it have enough lubricity to prevent your fuel pump from seizing? Also burning Jet-A smells a lot like a diesel...

In a past life, my late friend (Rocketboy, Bob Gross) , along with Horsepoor, and I brought home 5500 gallons of Jet-A (along with other fuels and oils) . We purchased diesel vehicles/motorhomes and so on, then ran them on Jet-A only after HFRR (high frequency reciprocating rig) testing the fuel for lubricity. I think I've posted about this in the past. By memory:

Jet-A had an HFRR wear scar of 650 or so,
Adding Stanadyne lubricity additive brought the numbers down some,
A combo of Stanadyne and 200 to 1 TCW-3 two stroke oil lowered the numbers to 255. Well below the 450 requirement for diesel.
Note: lower is better

I also have an Alfa Laval centrifugal filter that cleans the fuel of any moisture and particulates. Fuel comes out crystal clear.

So, on every batch of Jet-A, we add some TCW-3 and Stanadyne lubricity additive. None of us have experienced any problems with the fuel.



Burning Jet-A in a diesel engine smells exactly like burning diesel fuel. A characteristic stench that I find objectionable.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 02:40:11 PM by cujet »
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cujet

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2020, 01:37:07 PM »
My 6/1 under load, gets the exhaust pipe all the way up to about 330F ( 165C ) and I suppose the gas is a little bit hotter than that, but I don't have much hope that it will fire off a 200C cat.  But try it if you got the parts

That seems to be on the low side. I recall seeing 450 F with a non contact thermometer. Remember, you must paint the pipe black to get a really accurate reading.

Even so, you may very well be right, the lister exhaust may not have enough temperature to light off a Diesel catalyst when running at lower loads.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 01:38:49 PM by cujet »
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cujet

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2020, 02:33:45 AM »
Any thoughts on where I can find a cheap diesel catalyst that is "real". I can't imagine the $90 diesel catalysts on ebay have any precious metals in them.
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snowman18

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2020, 02:54:52 AM »
Any thoughts on where I can find a cheap diesel catalyst that is "real". I can't imagine the $90 diesel catalysts on ebay have any precious metals in them.

Are you really sure you want to try this.

Catalyst poisoning refers to the partial or total deactivation of a catalyst by a chemical compound..

snowman18

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2020, 03:13:55 AM »
Personally I think your barking up the wrong tree, engine timing, dirty air filter, worn injector needle or incorrect pop off pressure would allow excessive fuel into the cylinder.

Once your engine is at operating temperature the noxious fumes your complaining about should be at a minimum.

Either purchase or make your own injector pop off tester, with the tester you can pump the pressure up just before the injector pops off, hold it at that pressure to see if the needle leaks.

If the injector pops off before or after the manufacturers specified pressure you add or remove shims, the needle is held in a closed position with a spring and it takes a desired fuel pressure to lift the spring to allow fuel to pass through the nozzle

It's the desired amount of fuel pressure that lifts the needle valve from a closed position.

A weak or broken spring will cause the needle to either not lift at all or to early. An early needle lift would starve the engine for fuel.

The DIY pop off tester in the video was made from a bottle jack.

If the nozzle is worn this will allow more fuel than is needed to pass, big higheway rigs the owners often install larger nozzles on the injectors for a boost in horse power.

You need a turbo that will give the engine lots of air the breath when your pushing extra fuel.



https://youtu.be/Oiz9C8pTDos


 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 05:37:50 AM by snowman18 »

EdDee

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2020, 09:57:15 AM »
Hey CuJet! (and the rest of you diesel ruffians out there!!)

A couple years back, I played with a vortex heat separator on the the exhaust/inlet on my 12/1 ... Got interesting results when pushing hot side back into the engine inlet, a little increase in power with the "re-burn" but nothing major to write home about... But... here's where the memory fails me... I seem to remember the exhaust final emissions smelling a whole lot better than before fitting... Unfortunately, my interest at the time was not in the smells but in the power changes... Ultimately I considered the marginal (at the time) improvements not worthy of the permanent fitting and maintenance long term - But - as I said, I was not specifically looking at exhaust odor, not even remotely.... Subsequently, unfortunately, I have disassembled the gubbins and re purposed it into various odds n sods, so to redo it would be a right pita!

Cheers
E
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EdDee

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Re: Catalytic converter to reduce exhaust odor
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2020, 10:18:31 AM »
Lol... Without hijacking Chris's thread...

Will try, just flat out here at the mo, tidying up plenty of loose ends and trying to finish some projects...

Will stick my nose in more regularly when the panic is over and done!!

Lol
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!