Lister Engines > Original Lister Cs Engines
Water or steam injection
listeroil:
I would like some advice about water injection please. I will explain my situation I live off grid in the UK have been doing so for the last 19 years. For most of that time I have been running old Lister 8/1 engined Startomatics on WVO. No preheating just a thermostat to get the engine up to temperature quick. One thing I have noticed is that when I first get an engine thats been run on diesel all its life it starts first compression. However when starting on WVO it takes progressively more turning over to start on cold WVO. Not a big problem because its electric start. But not ideal also when doing a decoke I find a lot of erosion occurring above the top piston ring. So I fit a new piston and away we go again.
I have managed to acquire an almost brand new 1974 8/1 Startomatic. It was bought in 1974 when we had 3 months of power cuts to provide power for a Mansion house in Oxfordshire. It looks brand new no wear on anything. Probably done about 300 hours in total. With this bit of kit I want to set it up right. I've cast a concrete base and bolted it to that. It runs so smooth on red diesel at the moment.
I intend to start on red and after 15 mins when the engine is warm changeover to WVO run on that until shut down then change over to red for long enough to start on red diesel next start. This will be controlled by an Arduino. Before I run on WVO I intend to fit water injection again controlled by the Arduino. The Arduino will be used to control a mains operated peristaltic pump this way I can control exactly the amount of water injected per given load. The 8/1 uses about 500ml fuel per Kwh.
So the question is how much water to inject the same amount as fuel or less?
Another thought would steam injection be better? Because I am using a peristaltic pump I could wrap 3/16 copper brake pipe round the exhaust and inject steam in to the inlet manifold.
mike90045:
What ever method, make sure water cannot drain into the intake if something goes wrong.. Makes for real hard starting .
Steam may condense in the intake manifold
veggie:
I recently added an Arduino to my lister.
It monitors the engine coolant temperature and RPM using an infrared sensor to a white dot on the flywheel.
The Arduino sends the data to a cloud application so my cell phone can monitor it when I'm not in the garage.
(It will be running for up to 5 hours per cycle as a CHP system and I will not always be nearby).
My phone can communicate with the Arduino also, as part of my phone application I added a kill button.
If the engine senses overspeed, (or If I hit the kill button on my phone for any reason), the Arduino energizes a solenoid which closes the fuel rack until the flywheel rpm is zero..
It also allows me to have the engine run for a set time and then have the arduino turn off.
In the picture below you can see the Solid State relay attached to the right side of the Arduino enclosure.
That relay energizes the shutdown solenoid.
You could just as easily have the relay activate the water injection pump when the coolant temperature reaches some desired set point.
You could also use this same logic to active a fuel switch-over valve after 'x' minutes of running or after the engine shows some heat.
In reverse, the arduino could switch the fuel back to diesel 'x' minutes before auto shutdown.
Whatever you want. ... As long as you are having fun ! ;D
Also below is the 12vdc fuel switching valve that I will be using to switch from diesel to WVO (Currently my fuel switching is manual).
A second relay will be added to the Arduino to accomplish this.
listeroil:
I've been running lister cs engines for 19 years now the first couple of years only on red diesel. Then I found out about running them on vegoil and started using that. At the time it was cheaper than red so I ran on new vegoil from tesco's. Then for some unbeknown reason the price rocketed up to more than red diesel price. Thats when I started collecting WVO from various sources. This was not clean and what I did was leave it to stand for at least a month then decant the runny stuff off the top. I have never dried the oil just used the runny stuff as is the only filtering was a jcloth wrapped round a 5 micron filter in the water filter assembly and the filter close to the engine. The jcloth works great catches all the sediment before it gets to the 5 micron polypropylene water filter. When it blocks I just change the jcloth and use the old one to start the fire. However I now get my oil from just one supplier a firm that make crisps It is lovely and clean no whites. I get it in an IBC 1000 litres at a time for £200 which is better than the 30p per litre I was paying before for dirty oil and a lot easier to collect, they load it into my trailer with a forklift. I will test this oil for water content.
It is not the piston ring thats corroded its the piston itself the area above the top ring. When the carbon is cleaned off the side of the piston above the top ring quite a lot of aluminium is missing scored doesn't happen when running on red.
My reason for using the Arduino is to have a wireless controlled start and stop. I suffer from COPD and have only 24% lung capacity and the generator is about 100ft away and its just to far to walk to switch it on or off I am virtually housebound. Even though its a startomatic I dont like that function and have dispensed with it. The plan is to have a wireless camera in the genny shed check there's nobody there and start it with a press of the button in my cabin. Using the Arduino as an engine starter has some advantages. First I can spin the engine over decompressed for a few seconds then drop the decompressor for a less stress start. Second monitor the voltage and switch on the output contactor when the voltage reaches say 200 volts. Also when switching off switch the output contactor off before actually switching off the engine. Its not a good idea to have loads connected when the engine runs down. Also got a current sensor as well as the voltage and water temperature sensor. All these details can be transmitted back to the handset and be displayed on screen. I should point out that my son is the one who knows how to program and build the Arduino. Not me I just do the mechanicals.
I am in the process of setting up a pair of generators that way I can run one until it needs its oil changed. Then swap over to the other generator until that needs an oil change. This will give me an instant back up if either one fails. Ive been on a hunt for years to get 2 good 8/1 engined Startomatics and now have a nice pair. The second one has a 1981 engine that appears to be in good condition. Just the gen head needs some attention new anti vibration rubbers new brushes and top box rewiring to push button start.
Regarding the water injection my pump delivers 6.5 litres per hour this equates to 108ml per minute I've calculated that the genny on full load will use 2.25 litres fuel per hour. So if I run the pump for 2 minutes on and 8 minutes off this will give me 1.296 litres per hour.
I think I am going to do the twin tank system on one of the gennys because I have all the bits to do it and its been a long ongoing plan which is nearly there. I think I can achieve quite a quick changeover see enclosed picture of system I intend to use.
veggie:
You may already be aware, but the arduino "uno" and "mega"do not have WiFi capability.
If you wish to communicate with the system from the house, take a look at the Wemos D1R2.
Form factor and programming language is the same as Arduino but it has WiFi connectivity.
It even uses the Arduino programming software.
Costs around $10
The big difference with the Wemos is that it's pins are all 3.3vdc (like the raspberry Pi) unlike the Arduino which is 5vdc.
Buy local from Amazon. (As you know, ... EBay is not shipping from the Asia at the moment)
Make sure it's the Wemos D1 R2 . The older Wemos D1 has been phased out but there may still be some old inventory being sold.
cheers,
veggie
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