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Author Topic: Car engine ignition conversion  (Read 1450 times)

glort

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2020, 04:20:30 AM »
Some 4 cylinder Volvo engines used a distributor mounted on the camshaft end. The timing could be advanced or retarded by rotating the distributor.

Pretty much ALL  pre computer / electronic engines had a distributor and rotating it was the way you set the timing.  Even the early electronic ignitions had a dizzy  but replaced the points and condensor.  I did a number of conversions with kits that you put a slotted disk and an optical pickup in the cap to replace the points and condensor. They worked very well giving a noticable performance boost and were no maintence.

I take it you havent had much to do with petrol engines?
Either that or you are a lot younger than me !  Everything had a dizzy when I  was young.  :0)

glort

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2020, 05:14:37 AM »

My thoughts wete that with such a large engine for the power required, it should be possible to have tjem running fairly slow but i guess that depends on how slow.
I have seen charts for industrial diesels that specify power output at certain rpm but not relative to car engines.

I believe on injecter and boosted engines, lower rpm is more economical. Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft.  By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft  in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.

Injected engines also seem to do better at low rpm. Injection is also very helpful to torque.  A CV carb is about the best in that dept. because it keeps the gas speed up over the jets.
I think  something around 1500 to 2000 rpm would be plenty of speed for the desired load. In a vehicle, the engine can be idling at under 1000rpm and moving the car in a carpark, driving the power steering, the alt and the AC. Not hard to imagine that being 20 hp all up. Carb and basic ignition will knock that around a bit but still i think relatively low rpm will be adequate.

Even though lower revs gives best economy, an engine doing 4000 rpm is still mainly going to be influenced by load. Doesent take much to heep an unladen engine at speed, its the load it has to work against thats the main influence and the efficency.

Don't  mention WRX,s. Seems 90% of people that own them here are wankers.
Turbo Foresters, same engine, similar performance, totally different mentality of the majority of owners.... except the young kids that want to lower and modify them.

No trouble to sell turbo engines, kids are always blowing them up.

I see there are a good number of affordable lpg carbs available. That would add another aspect to the project.

hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2020, 02:58:25 PM »
Had a thought.

This might be something to consider looking into.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fairbanks-Morse-FM-V4B7-4-Cylinder-Tractor-Wisconsin-Engine-Magneto-HOT/184085921097?hash=item2adc603d49:g:gMkAAOSwd1dd-REf

Iíve had impulse mags on Wisconsin engines and they been pretty much bullet proof.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 03:14:29 PM by hwew »

hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2020, 03:05:20 PM »
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 03:09:19 PM by hwew »

hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2020, 03:49:48 PM »
I was thinking I have an impulse mag in storage. Iíll never use it. Itís been laying around for over 25 years.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 05:43:57 PM by hwew »

hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2020, 06:38:57 PM »
Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft.  By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft  in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.

He worked in person with the pilots and flight crews on the P38ís there is a great documentary on it. Was very interesting.

AdeV

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 07:38:38 PM »
Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft.  By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft  in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.

I believe ALL WW2 fighter aircraft were boosted. e.g. the Spitfire & Hurricane aircraft used a 2-stage supercharged Merlin engine. It wasn't just about fuel economy - the air is getting plenty thin at the altitudes they were flying, so boost allowed the engines to get a decent amount of air for the fuel they were burning. And they were 2-stage so you could switch from low boost (low altitude) to high boost as required. Not sure if they also used high boost to enhance top speed whilst in a low-level dogfight, but I can't imagine they didn't try it...

I think the Messerschmitts were turbo-charged, but haven't googled to confirm that.
Cheers!
Ade.
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0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

mike90045

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 05:41:54 AM »
...

I think the Messerschmitts were turbo-charged, but haven't googled to confirm that.


supercharged according to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_605

The supercharger was fairly advanced for the era in that it used a barometrically controlled hydraulic clutch (fluid coupling) which allowed the system to automatically compensate for changes in altitude.

way down in the list of variants:
DB 625      A turbocharged DB605

glort

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2020, 06:44:57 AM »
I think all aircraft were Blown at the end of the war but not at the begging.
Pretty sure the P38 in it's original form was NA and was a bit of a dog that nearly got scrapped. Someone had the bright idea of replacing the Griffon? ( tank engine) with the Merlin (Packard built) which transformed the thing into a legend.

 The thing Lindbergh found Ade was changing the way they set the engines up at cruise different made the big Impact on the fuel economy From memory he reversed the setup from low boost, high revs to low revs, high boost. May have been something with changing prop pitch and mixture as well.

What he did was strictly about economy and just how the adjustments were made to the engine for out and back operation as against fighting setup etc. 

Mechanic mate and I have discussed this for years. He's into old cars and has always held that higher revs and lower engine load was the road to economy. That was based on Carburetor cars. While he is well familiar with injection, he's not done much with modifying injected engines, just rebuilding fixing them.
Over time he has come to change his mind and agree with me that injected and boosted engines are more economical at lower revs and higher load and higher boost where possible.  He's tried this with a few turbo cars holding them in a higher gear than he normally would towing and has come to believe that as small as the results he can achieve ( being turbo and computer controlled engines) the difference is there and it is repeatable.

It would be very interesting to have a high and low supercharger setting on a Vehicle. And probably a lot of fun. I remember when I modified the Turbo Diesel in my 4WD to bring the boost in about 700 RPM lower that it was before what a difference that made. Wasn't Higher boost just came on a lot earlier and got the fun happening a lot sooner.

AdeV

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2020, 01:01:02 PM »
I'll have to read up on Lindburgh - you're probably right about that. IIRC the P38 had an Allison engine to begin with, I don't know if it was a NA or boosted engine; but it was underpowered for the plane. Putting the Merlin, and later the Griffon (the tank engine variant was the Meteor, and was unboosted as far as I know - tanks never really got my juices flowing the same way as WW2 aircraft), turned it, as you say, into the legend that it became.

Hmm, I have a few Jag V12s lying about the shed, it'd be interesting to stick a 2-stage supercharger on one, just to see what it could do...
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

glort

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2020, 08:45:19 AM »

Hmm, I have a few Jag V12s lying about the shed, it'd be interesting to stick a 2-stage supercharger on one, just to see what it could do...

That would make it a Mini Merlin would it not?   :laugh:
Sure like to see that!

hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2020, 05:52:46 AM »
I always had an interest WW2 fighters.
The P38 had lots of teething problems in the beginning. Most of the Allison engine issues were addressed in the later versions.
The first P38ís Britain received were awful. They were underpowered because no turbochargerís in them and I believe Britain canceled the order.
It was not much longer when turbochargerís were installed and they did very well in Asia. But it would of been a much better plane if Merlinís were installed. The Merlins were more reliable, Merlin gave Packard licensing to build the Merlins in the US. A Merlin powered P38 would of been something.


hwew

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2020, 12:56:02 PM »

Hmm, I have a few Jag V12s lying about the shed, it'd be interesting to stick a 2-stage supercharger on one, just to see what it could do...

That would make it a Mini Merlin would it not?   :laugh:
Sure like to see that!



Mini Merlin:

https://hackaday.com/2017/09/11/if-youre-going-to-make-a-model-engine-you-might-as-well-make-it-a-merlin/



Some history of the Merlin:

https://youtu.be/GYcKdK7hmEo
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 03:23:03 PM by hwew »

gadget

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2020, 06:02:31 AM »
Glort,

If you can find a wrecked older honda civic hybrid or insight hybrid they have a permanent magnet generator (IMA) packed just behind the flywheel. I believed they output 120v'ish 3 phase AC.  but the coils could be rewired in parallel to lower the voltage or just rewound for a 12v or maybe 24v output

That would make a nice stationary motor conversion for topping off the solar batteries.

That was in the early 2000's when they where using the 120v Nimh battery packs.

snowman18

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Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2020, 05:27:23 AM »
Glort,

If you can find a wrecked older honda civic hybrid or insight hybrid they have a permanent magnet generator (IMA) packed just behind the flywheel. I believed they output 120v'ish 3 phase AC.  but the coils could be rewired in parallel to lower the voltage or just rewound for a 12v or maybe 24v output

That would make a nice stationary motor conversion for topping off the solar batteries.

That was in the early 2000's when they where using the 120v Nimh battery packs.

Fisher & Paykel Smart Drive Washing Machine