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Author Topic: EPA Regulations  (Read 2907 times)

Tanman

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2020, 12:37:23 AM »

Again, people right here on this forum will sell you a new rebuilt engine done right but from what i read, they cant find any takers?

I think the main reason listeroids aren't moving is because the demand is dropping, like you said before there are other higher performance modern options (Kubota 2 and 3 cylinder engines) that can be had for $750-1000 all day long. But most folks still want $2,200+ for their listeroid like during the first 10 years of the ban. I would love listeroids to become more affordable for the average guy (one reason I like to look for loopholes in the regulations, more supply = lower prices) they are unique and do what they do well, but I think prices more inline with what we are seeing lightly used Kubota going for would be more realistic. I think everyone got excited when people were willing to pay $3,000+ for a listeroid in the near past, and it's tough when they are selling for less than that today and probably less next year. We will see what the "free" market does I guess.......
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LowGear

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2020, 07:04:21 PM »
SOLAR vs All The Time and Trouble
and
Running Costs
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mike90045

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2020, 09:25:11 PM »
>  SOLAR vs All The Time and Trouble and Running Costs

except when solar is not:

Tanman

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2020, 05:40:28 AM »
Any tips on where to get panels cheap?
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AdeV

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2020, 12:05:38 PM »
Any tips on where to get panels cheap?

Australian dumpsters, by the sounds of it!
Cheers!
Ade.
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0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

LowGear

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2020, 05:07:38 PM »
Let me clarify.  Solar is replacing generators.  Especially big heavy units that put out less than 5 KW.  I believe it's called a disrupted market.
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LowGear

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2020, 05:09:02 PM »
The world is transitioning.  There are solar systems without generators showing up more frequently as time marches by.  Just like cars.  If I had suggested 15 years ago that there would be battery powered autos not too uncommon on the road you would have been doubtful.  Today it is a fact.  Ten years ago if I reported that there were battery based solar homes you would have held the same doubt.

I'm offering one of the reasons, a growing one, that our old (technologically for sure) friends are losing their market share and popularity.  Perhaps we could write a science fiction movie about the remaining people being saved by a Lister diesel generating enough electricity to keep the incandescent lights on in the growing warehouse to feed and maintain the circadian rhythms to maintain life.
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StrawHat

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2020, 07:42:31 AM »
I think many are missing the simple and obvious about why EPA regs seek to outlaw the Listeriods. Our gubberment doesn't want anyone living off grid! Why? Simply put, they make tax money on every watt you buy off the grid. That's it!

AdeV

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 07:59:49 AM »
Any tips on where to get panels cheap?

Australian dumpsters, by the sounds of it!  :laugh:

As Ironic as your well meaning sarcasm is Ade, You are dead right!

Wasn't sarcasm - just wry humour :)


The hard to get bits are the inverters. Panels last decades, the early inverters were lucky to last 5 years and here thanks to the wonderfully beneficial ( to me) laws, If an inverter goes belly up you can't replace it.
Well you can, but only with the same inverter.... which being 5+ years old of course are long obsolete and out of production so you have to install an entire new system. This is where pretty much all my panels have come from bar the last lots.


Good effing grief. Just when I think we must have reached peak Government stupidity - along comes something which proves me dead wrong. So basically, the laws in Australia (or your bit of it at least) mean that if a 5-year-old inverter goes pop, you have to rip off panels which would be good for at least another 20 years, because you can't change inverter?!?! No wonder you're finding stacks of good used panels for nuppence. I bet there's a rule the panels can't be re-sold either.

Panels here in the UK are still relatively expensive, and you very very rarely see 2nd hand ones on the market - I think our gov't would rather see existing panels in service as long as possible, and the electrical side being as modern as possible... so no such rule here.

Then again, we get the square root of bugger all in the way of sunshine, compared with most of Oz. We'd be better off with micro hydro systems in our drainpipes I reckon...
Cheers!
Ade.
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guest25219

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 11:00:04 AM »
Panels here in the UK are still relatively expensive, and you very very rarely see 2nd hand ones on the market - I think our gov't would rather see existing panels in service as long as possible, and the electrical side being as modern as possible... so no such rule here.

Then again, we get the square root of bugger all in the way of sunshine, compared with most of Oz. We'd be better off with micro hydro systems in our drainpipes I reckon...

Just a slight difference in specific yield  ;D

AdeV

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2020, 01:07:35 PM »
From the way I'm reading it, some coastal areas seem to get less radiation than inland.

Coastal areas tend to have more cloud cover than non-coastal; especially if there's hilly/mountainous land close to the coast (e.g. North Wales). So whilst the solar flux (is that the right word?) is just as strong as anywhere else on that lattitude, it mostly bounces off the top of the clouds...
Cheers!
Ade.
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LowGear

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2020, 05:12:33 PM »
I can't believe the amount of gain my solar system is putting out now compared to two years ago when we were having VOG (Volcano generated SMOG).  It is amazing.

We face the same forced obsolescence here in Hawaii.  I wouldn't be able to put my inverter on a system seeking licensing today even though being twelve years old it's purring right along.  This regulation is just a door stop the Hawaii Electric Company uses to discourage wider use of solar.  It is not a function of government code.

At the same time if I increase my system size I must switch from a watt for watt exchange program to a wholesale out and retail in program for the existing system as well as the additional capacity upgrade.  The working but older inverter would be Okay for the old system but could not be used in the upgraded part.  Kind of makes you appreciate extra soft tissue paper.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 05:18:25 PM by LowGear »
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Hugh Conway

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2020, 10:51:32 PM »
@ Glort.... re the cloud edge effect. I have noticed that myself, occasionally in summer. Here in the North Pacific winter ar 50*N, the clouds don't have edges........in fact "clouds" is a misnomer.......it is just CLOUD (as  in one all-encompassing cloud) most of the time! My solar panels are useless then.
Bless the listeroid! It is running right now charging up the battery bank.
Otherwise, it would be kerosene lamps at noon.
Cheers,
Hugh
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mikenash

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Re: EPA Regulations
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2020, 06:20:40 AM »
Quote:

"    A grid size Lister is known as a coal fired power plant
and without exception is the most reliable, dependable and cheapest form of grid qty power . . . ."

I guess this is the same process that is used by politicians - especially during elections years:  Say something moronic, simplistic & inaccurate - but sound definite and informed and demonstrate your readiness to shower words & invective over anyone who disagrees - and most people will either believe you or at least realise that challenging you is more hassle than it's worth.

However:

Down here at the bottom of the world we're sneaking up on 89% renewable (hydro, wind, smidgens of solar here & there, playing with wave stuff etc etc)

If it wasn't for the (depending on the harshness of the winter) eight to eleven days every year when it's really cold & we use lots of power and burn some gas or coal to make up the shortfall, and for the ecologically inefficient but fiscally efficient decision-making of the generating companies (running the hydro lakes lower than optimum while turning the windmills off cos it's more profitable to use hydro than wind)  we could be 100% renewable and with energy to spare

Of course, our situation is unusual in that we're a small, mountainous country with good hydro potential

On a global scale I offer as proof of my assertion the (as of statistics available early last year) the 99.997% of all the electricity ever generated anywhere by nuclear plants which have never had a "leakage" scare, a spill, an explosion, a melt-down, a catastrophe - or anything worse than a bit of bad press

Those are the real cheap, reliable, dependable generators . . .

Just saying :)