Puppeteer

Author Topic: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil  (Read 425 times)

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« on: January 13, 2020, 08:58:03 PM »
So, in a move that normally wouldn't happen, I re-opened the engine after changing the oil a couple days earlier, and found silver gunk all up on the sides.

It's not magnetic, so that means it's not bearings or shafts, right?  and means it's probably the cylinder jacket... right? 

I've had stuck rings in the past, and fixed that, and she still runs in what seems a normal fashion. 

What am I looking at, and what do I do to fix it?





You know what would be magical? if for some reason the oil I used has some detergent in it or something that is not compatible with this 6/1 gen.  wouldn't that be great?   I used



which I've used in the past.  But someone make me happy and tell me that's all it is.



6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.


AdeV

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 10:36:20 PM »
Hm - is the gunk semi-solid, like grease rather than oil? It sure looks like it from here. Water+oil usually ends up as a white emulsion (the "mayo" you get when your head gasket's gone in a car engine). What was the rest of the oil in the sump like? Clean, or full of silver bits?

Non-magnetic silver coloured deposits could be:
 - Chrome (if yours is a Listard bore - i.e. chromed) - I'd say this was highly unlikely, you could pull the head to confirm, there would be extremely obvious damage to the bore.
 - Babbitt material, if you're running Babbitt bearings - pull the big end shell to confirm, it's very unlikely (but not impossible, I guess) to be the little end.
 - Something non-metallic and weird.

Scrape/remove some of the gunk, add some petrol to thin it down & see what happens. In a glass container would be ideal. If it turns to a uniform liquid with silvery bits in, try running it through a filter paper to see what you get.

Is your dipper attached & splashing lube onto the main bearing feed tray?

Did you put magic pixie dust in your diesel to make it run for longer on the same calorific content  ;D ;D ;D? [joking of course...]
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 10:41:31 PM »
Iíve seen water in oil before, itís not just that.

Also, itís not all completely silver/hunker up. Itís kike this silver stuff is thicker, then the rest is still black oil. 

 Iíve never changed any part of the oiling system inside, so I donít think itís suddenly that. Will try other experiments and report back.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:46:25 PM by tyssniffen »
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

AdeV

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 10:48:37 PM »

Also, itís not all completely silver/hunker up. Itís kike this silver stuff is thicker, then the rest is still black oil. 


Was any part of the inside of the block painted? Maybe the oil reacted with the paint, if so.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

mikenash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 05:58:00 AM »
FWIW I'd drain and clean as thoroughly as possible and put in something like "Morris" type straight 30 and run it and see what happens?

Maybe even do that twice?

Is that semi-synthetic you have there?  Maybe some odd reaction?

Good luck

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 06:05:03 AM »
Bearing material is not magnetic.  It it was bearings, big, little end at least with that much throwing off i think the thing would be knocking pretty hard by now.

I have heard that changing oils can cause a lot of dirt and initial sludge but i don't know if that is more fact or fiction. Had the engine run long hours with any sludge before? If you went from a mineral to a synth or vice versa may be something in that.
Wondering if it could be some water and sludge?
Never seen or heard of WI causing this before.

gadget

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 06:22:01 AM »
my first guess would be coolant and possible metal mixing with your oil. Are you loosing coolant?

As a mechanic, I have seen gray goop many times with water mixing with oil. Especially when there has been metal on metal rubbing. White goop seems to be more common with condensation from cold starts and not enough warmup of the engine.

Keep us posted on what you find
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:24:09 AM by gadget »

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 06:27:56 AM »
my first guess would be coolant and possible metal mixing with your oil. Are you loosing coolant?


I believe the op is running wvo. If he has been using some wmo, i wonder if it could be metal particles from that?

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 06:35:28 AM »
Nothing has been painted since it came out of the crate (nothing but the shutoff handle). 

I * did* just add some new form of coolant!! But only about half a gallon I my 30 gal radiator....  and I have to admit to worrying about my gasket seal not being perfect. 

Iíve drained it completely and will clean it up tomorrow.  I do t have easy access to other oil - thatís the same sort of oil Iíve used for years... though Iíve only really started to put serious hours on her this year.

Looking quickly at what I drained out today, before it settles, it looks HALF silver?? What the hell?


Coolant leaking into the oil?  That would in fact be mostly good news.
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 06:39:35 AM »
my first guess would be coolant and possible metal mixing with your oil. Are you loosing coolant?


I believe the op is running wvo. If he has been using some wmo, i wonder if it could be metal particles from that?

You are correct - Iím running WVO, but what do you mean ďmetal from thatĒ?  Itís filtered stuff, from a good source. And certainly had no silver look like this.

And, if I did t say before, I DO lose a fair amount of coolant... but itís an open system. I figure I boil off about 2. Gallons (of 30) every 20 hours.  Too much?
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 08:06:57 AM »


I meant if you were using motor oil, that may have some metal particles in it.

As for coolant loss, Spose depends on where it's going.  If you have an open drum and it's evaporating, not a problem.
If it's going into the engine.....

I don't know but I would tend to think that leakage from an unpressurised system would probably be minimal. The sump can be under some Vacuum so maybe there could be some pull into it but there is also pressure so.....

saba

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 08:00:15 PM »
I think it is fuel maybe because running a cold engine. Or just blowby.
Vegitable oil can give nice gunk.
Regards bernhard.

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2020, 08:56:21 PM »
I think it is fuel maybe because running a cold engine. Or just blowby.
Vegitable oil can give nice gunk.
Regards bernhard.

are you suggesting that my fuel - my used vegetable oil - is getting into the engine cavity and turning silver and gunking up the motor oil?   That doesn't seem to possible to me. 
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

tyssniffen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2020, 09:02:40 PM »
also, not full report, but I've spent the morning cleaning out the sump completely.   I even heated up some new oil in a pan (it's cold here) to help me completely flush the screen around the oil intake.  (warms the hand as you are flopping the gunk around too!)

Side problem? source of the real problem?

As I turn the flywheel to get the old stuff out of the pipes of the 'oil squirting system' (what's that called?) I notice that it seems like one side IS NOT squirting the oil onto the bearings like the other one is.    The side away from the handcrank and pump has NOT yet squirted out any of the new oil I've got down in the sump. 
Is this a problem?  does that side just need more RPMs to get it squirting over there?   If it hasn't been squirting over there for some time, could all this silver be those bearings disintegrating? 

I will post more revelations, but wanted to ask these questions and say there seems to be so much silver in there it MUST be a chemical reaction.  If it was something disintegrating into powder, the whole thing would have fallen apart by now!
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.