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Author Topic: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil  (Read 5560 times)

tyssniffen

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another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« on: January 13, 2020, 08:58:03 PM »
So, in a move that normally wouldn't happen, I re-opened the engine after changing the oil a couple days earlier, and found silver gunk all up on the sides.

It's not magnetic, so that means it's not bearings or shafts, right?  and means it's probably the cylinder jacket... right? 

I've had stuck rings in the past, and fixed that, and she still runs in what seems a normal fashion. 

What am I looking at, and what do I do to fix it?





You know what would be magical? if for some reason the oil I used has some detergent in it or something that is not compatible with this 6/1 gen.  wouldn't that be great?   I used



which I've used in the past.  But someone make me happy and tell me that's all it is.



6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.


AdeV

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 10:36:20 PM »
Hm - is the gunk semi-solid, like grease rather than oil? It sure looks like it from here. Water+oil usually ends up as a white emulsion (the "mayo" you get when your head gasket's gone in a car engine). What was the rest of the oil in the sump like? Clean, or full of silver bits?

Non-magnetic silver coloured deposits could be:
 - Chrome (if yours is a Listard bore - i.e. chromed) - I'd say this was highly unlikely, you could pull the head to confirm, there would be extremely obvious damage to the bore.
 - Babbitt material, if you're running Babbitt bearings - pull the big end shell to confirm, it's very unlikely (but not impossible, I guess) to be the little end.
 - Something non-metallic and weird.

Scrape/remove some of the gunk, add some petrol to thin it down & see what happens. In a glass container would be ideal. If it turns to a uniform liquid with silvery bits in, try running it through a filter paper to see what you get.

Is your dipper attached & splashing lube onto the main bearing feed tray?

Did you put magic pixie dust in your diesel to make it run for longer on the same calorific content  ;D ;D ;D? [joking of course...]
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

tyssniffen

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 10:41:31 PM »
I’ve seen water in oil before, it’s not just that.

Also, it’s not all completely silver/hunker up. It’s kike this silver stuff is thicker, then the rest is still black oil. 

 I’ve never changed any part of the oiling system inside, so I don’t think it’s suddenly that. Will try other experiments and report back.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:46:25 PM by tyssniffen »
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

AdeV

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 10:48:37 PM »

Also, it’s not all completely silver/hunker up. It’s kike this silver stuff is thicker, then the rest is still black oil. 


Was any part of the inside of the block painted? Maybe the oil reacted with the paint, if so.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

mikenash

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 05:58:00 AM »
FWIW I'd drain and clean as thoroughly as possible and put in something like "Morris" type straight 30 and run it and see what happens?

Maybe even do that twice?

Is that semi-synthetic you have there?  Maybe some odd reaction?

Good luck

gadget

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 06:22:01 AM »
my first guess would be coolant and possible metal mixing with your oil. Are you loosing coolant?

As a mechanic, I have seen gray goop many times with water mixing with oil. Especially when there has been metal on metal rubbing. White goop seems to be more common with condensation from cold starts and not enough warmup of the engine.

Keep us posted on what you find
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:24:09 AM by gadget »

tyssniffen

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 06:35:28 AM »
Nothing has been painted since it came out of the crate (nothing but the shutoff handle). 

I * did* just add some new form of coolant!! But only about half a gallon I my 30 gal radiator....  and I have to admit to worrying about my gasket seal not being perfect. 

I’ve drained it completely and will clean it up tomorrow.  I do t have easy access to other oil - that’s the same sort of oil I’ve used for years... though I’ve only really started to put serious hours on her this year.

Looking quickly at what I drained out today, before it settles, it looks HALF silver?? What the hell?


Coolant leaking into the oil?  That would in fact be mostly good news.
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

tyssniffen

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 06:39:35 AM »
my first guess would be coolant and possible metal mixing with your oil. Are you loosing coolant?


I believe the op is running wvo. If he has been using some wmo, i wonder if it could be metal particles from that?

You are correct - I’m running WVO, but what do you mean “metal from that”?  It’s filtered stuff, from a good source. And certainly had no silver look like this.

And, if I did t say before, I DO lose a fair amount of coolant... but it’s an open system. I figure I boil off about 2. Gallons (of 30) every 20 hours.  Too much?
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

saba

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 08:00:15 PM »
I think it is fuel maybe because running a cold engine. Or just blowby.
Vegitable oil can give nice gunk.
Regards bernhard.

tyssniffen

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 08:56:21 PM »
I think it is fuel maybe because running a cold engine. Or just blowby.
Vegitable oil can give nice gunk.
Regards bernhard.

are you suggesting that my fuel - my used vegetable oil - is getting into the engine cavity and turning silver and gunking up the motor oil?   That doesn't seem to possible to me. 
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

tyssniffen

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 09:02:40 PM »
also, not full report, but I've spent the morning cleaning out the sump completely.   I even heated up some new oil in a pan (it's cold here) to help me completely flush the screen around the oil intake.  (warms the hand as you are flopping the gunk around too!)

Side problem? source of the real problem?

As I turn the flywheel to get the old stuff out of the pipes of the 'oil squirting system' (what's that called?) I notice that it seems like one side IS NOT squirting the oil onto the bearings like the other one is.    The side away from the handcrank and pump has NOT yet squirted out any of the new oil I've got down in the sump. 
Is this a problem?  does that side just need more RPMs to get it squirting over there?   If it hasn't been squirting over there for some time, could all this silver be those bearings disintegrating? 

I will post more revelations, but wanted to ask these questions and say there seems to be so much silver in there it MUST be a chemical reaction.  If it was something disintegrating into powder, the whole thing would have fallen apart by now!
6/1 with 2 tank for WVO.  pushing power into off-grid house battery bank, in winter.

saba

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 10:17:00 PM »
Put a small cup of luboil and add some of your wvo
Stir it and look the next day how it turned out.

Your Line is probebly blocket with this gunk.

veggie

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »

A product of considerable blow-by of veg oil fuel and oil.
Polymerized veg oil. (maybe some water too).
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)

veggie

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Re: another disaster: silver gunk in new oil
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2020, 04:44:42 PM »

Seen LOTS of Poly, never seen it like in the picture or that colour.

That's the new "Silver Sludge" poly.  Came out in 2019  ;D

I'm suggesting water, Oil, and WVO. And this engine does have a history of water leaks.

There are only 3 liquids in that engine. What else can it be.?
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)