Author Topic: DIY Short block  (Read 2336 times)

dkmc

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2020, 10:11:25 PM »
It would be interesting to see a price quote from Cat Tail. In reality, I don't think there's much demand or interest as far as sales goes. Probably have a hard time selling 5 of the blocks in 5 years. I mean, who needs one? If someone has a block, they likely have a complete engine. Other than it's the major missing piece in the pile of most other easily obtainable and low cost parts. The one other piece I don't see readily listed on the spare parts web pages is Crank Shafts. Very few folks using these engines on a daily basis for 'work' I'd speculate.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 10:16:41 PM by dkmc »

snowman18

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2020, 12:50:50 AM »
If I were going to have an engine block cast at a foundry would make the rounds to the shops that work on highway rigs and farm equipment shops.

Collect enough scrap cylinder liners to cast an engine block.

I'm running two garden sized tractors made in the mid 1970's both have Onan engines that have never been opened up, a third engine that was seized from neglect not so much as a ridge on either cylinder bore.

The cast iron used was superior, and you paid a premium for an Onan.

Below is reference to diesel engine cylinder liners.

The liner can be manufactured using a superior material to the cylinder block. While the cylinder block is made from a grey cast iron, the liner is manufactured from a cast iron alloyed with chromium, vanadium and molybdenum.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:56:51 AM by snowman18 »

glort

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2020, 02:34:23 AM »

Wasn't the original ideas to have a flat pack for shipping economy?
One would want to compare the cost and benifits of importing a block against having one made locally in limited numbers.

snowman18

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2020, 03:13:41 AM »
Guys,

I have been thinking about building my own block from metal plate.  After a few rebuilds of my listeroid I have enough spare parts lying around to build another one

You can easily buy all the parts minus the block for cheap.  The blocks are next to impossible to find / source for a reasonable price.  Importing new engines is getting harder and harder

I have access to a machine shop with CNC waterjet, plasma and CNC machine

I'm thinking of machining up a simple block which would consist of metal plates around 1/4" or so welded together.  It would be more square / rectangular than the original but all the holes, etc would line up and everything would just bolt on.

What do you guys think?  has anyone done this before?  Am I crazy?  Should I start selling it as a DIY weldable kit?  lol
If the Indians can do it - why cant we?

It would certainly get more guys into the hobby..  What about flywheels?

John

You'll never convince me, for the following reasons.

Castings vs. Weldments/Fabrications

    One common method is to convert a welding (fabrication) into a sand casting.  The major consideration in cost saving is labor time.  The amount of time that can be saved by converting to a casting varies on: the alloy being converted, amount of welding spots, assembly time, and the total amount of pieces to be combined.  Other than total labor time saved; a major factor is the mechanical properties that a casting provides.

    A common problem in weldments is durability due to strength concerns where the pieces are welded together.  To combat such problems, engineers turn to castings to increase strength (among several other mechanical properties) due to the uniformity of pouring a casting.  It is important to note that the quantities have to justify the conversion and may not be right for each situation.  To the right is a picture of a casting that converted from a fabrication.

Benefits of Converting a Weldment to a Casting

    Overall Less Labor Time
    Time Until Part is Ready
    Better Mechanical Properties
    Better Appearance


http://info.cpm-industries.com/blog/bid/178199/Reducing-Costs-Converting-Weldments-into-Castings
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 03:17:20 AM by snowman18 »

snowman18

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2020, 03:33:10 AM »
Imagine the time it would take to produce a few hundred gears on a cnc machine, powder metallurgy is the future.

Gear hobbing will soon be a thing of the past.\

Power Metallurgy
https://youtu.be/s1TGXa3pB5M

Gear Hobbing
https://youtu.be/fMxKMLIDkqo?t=23
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 03:36:49 AM by snowman18 »

Tanman

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2020, 10:52:33 PM »

veggie - thanks for the input..  I am sure he can supply a block here or there but my point is - the blocks are in short supply and those that are available are relatively expensive..  especially once you factor in freight costs

I want to create something that is easily accessible to the average Joe - allowing them to get into the hobby with minimal cost.

The 6/1 is a marvellous machine that can give you freedom and independence from the state..   more people should have one in their shed... the damn EPA / government makes that a hard option..

Here in Canada for example they just implemented carbon taxes..  I used to heat my house with propane..  it would cost me nearly 6K per winter season to heat my house..  now with the carbon taxes - it adds nearly $600 more per year and each year the tax is phased in to increase till 2030..  I really feel for my kids..  you need heat to survive..  the state wants you to be fully dependant on them..  I prefer the other way round

Amen to all that! I have found it difficult to get one of these built on a budget, I like the Idea of starting with my own block and piecing it together over the course of a year or so. I love the idea and I think one thing that could help out the community would be to get younger folks (20's and teenagers) like myself into the hobby, to increase demand and supply and get more of these around!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 11:09:27 PM by Tanman »
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mike90045

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2020, 05:35:54 AM »
Maybe coming up with a 3D printing master data file, print your block in plastic, and use it as a lost wax style mold master.  All the proper blending of corners and reinforcement webs for mounting feet, sprues, vents and such could be cast right in. 

glort

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2020, 07:01:36 AM »
I love the idea and I think one thing that could help out the community would be to get younger folks (20's and teenagers) like myself into the hobby, to increase demand and supply and get more of these around!

I think that is wishful thinking.
Every engine show I got to is a well aged Sausage Fest.
VERY few young people, a few suffering women looking bored out their brains but accompanying husbands who drag them along.

I know a god number of young people, I can't think of any whom would be remotely interested in these things.  More over, I can't see WHY they would be interested in them.
People like yourself are a VERY rare breed these days.

At the local engine show I go to very regularly I see a few thousand people there, Maybe 100 exhibitors.  I know of 2 young people there I see every time.  One guy is in his 20's and has a much younger brother and the father owns some machines.
The young guys do have a Modified V8 tractor with a 351 in it and an Armored Personnel carrier though! :0)

Other than them I see Very few young people.  So many other interesting things for them to be interested in these days.  Games, computers, cars, girls.  Hard to compete with those tings although the smarter ones amoungst us probably stuck with an interest in old Iron than young women.

No matter how cantankerous or how much money you spend on an engine, still less trouble and far cheaper than getting involved with those soft, warm, nice smelling things.

dkmc

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2020, 07:36:24 AM »
That is interesting. Because back in the 1990's, (I have been attending 'Engine shows' since about 1985-ish) I noticed VERY few women. It seemed strange. And the ones that were there were well past 50. Once in awhile there was the out-of-place 20-something-pretty good looking girl. Rare. I was convinced the world was DOOMED. Now-a-days, for the last 15? years, there has been a steady, and lately HUGE increase in family as well as the 20-30-something crowd. The Boyz and their women. Short-shorts and Tank tops included. It's a 'strange' sight.....why would these young people be remotely intrested in all this rusty old junk??
Dunno........but REALLY glad to see this new trend, with the scenery that goes with it....
Yes, I'm guess I'm qualified as a 'dirty old man' these years.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 07:41:04 AM by dkmc »

glort

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2020, 08:48:27 AM »

I agree, very interesting.
I have seen the families, no two ways about that.  The parents with the Kiddies about 3-10 yo mainly but certainly not very many of the 20's with the girlfriends..or on their own.  Very rare occasions but not many.  They and the families also tend to be at the Big shows where there are things like rides and a bunch of steam engines rather than just engine shows themselves.

I wonder if there are cultural perceptions that are behind the differing interests? The shows I go to are more city based even though the die hards travel from all over but it may be you are seeing more country based events? That would account for some differences I would think.

You reckon you are a Dirty old man?  You should feel how I do!

My main expertise as a photographer is glamour work, specifically figure and nudes.  I'm shooting more women younger than my daughter these days than not.  Embarrassing when you are making conversation about things like they happened yesterday only to recall it happened before they were born.

It does play on my mind these days and I wonder and worry about the perception people might have. With the overt PC mentality these days and the presumption every guy out there is some pervert or weirdo, I feel constantly like I'm being looked at with suspicion.
That said, I am coming across more girls that are conscious of what they show in pics and may not even want to do anything topless but then decline to use the change room and will strip down butt naked and casually have a chat to you with no hurry to put their gear back on.  My wife says don't worry about it, its an indicator they trust and are comfortable with you.  Maybe but still seems odd.


 The girls I work with all give me glowing testimonials and recommendations but I have also seen many times distinct suspicion at the beginning I never saw years ago when I was older but not their fathers age. I have also seen distinct trends in girls wanting to work with younger, trendier guys even though these same people will concede their work is not well liked and, to my confusion, the fact that they will still want to work with people with bad reputations but popular on social media through their own self inflating BS.

The biggest thing by far that makes me question my longevity in this business is the complete and utter unreliability of people these days. I don't know how these 18-30 yo girls hold a job.  I'm up to the 30's of people I have booked, confirmed and either pull out at the very last minute or don't show at all since beginning of November.  I book, confirm 3 days out and then the day before and still get no shows and insulting lame excuses the bimbos were giving me literally before these reliables  were even born. They think they are the first one to use this and the inevitable sick Grandmother excuse will be taken with sympathy and without question even though it's also been an inside joke in the industry before they were born.

It's completely impractical to try and run a Business with such an unreliable client base.  I'm only sticking with it ATM because I haven't found anything else I can make a quid from.

 One always had some flakes and bimbos in the game but the number I and shooters I hold in far higher esteem and ability than myself are all complaining of the same thing. I thought it was something I was doing at first but if they blow some of these other highly talented people off.... I can only say what the hell?

I think some of them think they can get away with anything if they bat their eyes and dress like hookers but if anything all that does is piss me off at the insult to my intelligence and the presumption all my thinking is done with the little head rather than the bigger one.

I guess if any vintage engine society wanted to do a recruitment drive of younger guys, I'd be the man for the job. I know marketing, advertising and promotion but more Importantly, I have the contact details of a bunch of hot 18-20 something bikini Models.

You want young guys to come to engine shows? Let me tell you how to get them there in droves...... :0)
Might need some Medicos on stand by for the regular old farts though.


dkmc

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2020, 09:44:51 AM »

Glort....my Man.
I feel your troubles and sympathize with you. I am a fully-semi qualified USA non-certified photography inspector and interpreter.
I invite you, and I implore you to send me samples of the work that troubles you for my complete evaluation and recommendation.
PLEASE, do not hold back, as difficult as it must be. Send any and all renditions of your works that have the least concern or that which you feel is troubling in nature, and I shall DO my best to analyze, disseminate, and fully inspect. Huh....Then work out, and report back to you with my findings. DO not delay, and send them ASAP. Your well being depends on immediate action.

Johndoh

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It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

glort

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Re: DIY Short block
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2020, 08:58:06 AM »

Thanks for you kind, generous and highly unselfish offer DK.
I appreciate you putting your expertise to my benefit and they very noble offer of help.  Not everyone would put themselves out like that. I am humbled and appreciative of your outreach of help.

Plus that was bloody funny and brilliantly well written!   :laugh:

When I get home next week, I'll have to send you a link to a few gallery's on my site for your semi unprofessional appraisal.