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Author Topic: Lister 6/1 startomatic  (Read 1261 times)

Bohana

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Lister 6/1 startomatic
« on: January 03, 2020, 09:14:32 AM »
Hi all,

this is my first post so forgive me if I am writing about something that makes all you harden lister veterans eyes roll.

I have purchased a 6/1 SOM which I am struggling to find any details of or even an image of one that looks like mine.

Basically it came out of an Exeter police station ... I am guessing it is quite an early one.

The strange thing is it has two gen heads connected by a shaft , one says "generator" on it and I have put 24V into this and the belt happily drives the lister and starts it , the other head says "alternator" 220 -240v ....

My question is I cant work out how the batteries get charged the "generator head" does not seem to put out any voltage (yet happily spins when I apply voltage , is there a blocking dioide preventing the current going back??) 

also it seems like the AC alternator needs excitement to work (would I be right in those thoughts ? if so does excitement need a permanent 24v DC feed?

sorry to ask but I am totally new to a SOM but .. I have to say what an awesome piece of engineering :))))

 

Oiler

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 07:27:50 AM »
Pictures are allways welcome 8)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 09:32:57 AM by Oiler »
1962 CS 6/1 for cutting firewood.
24 volt 600 watt vindturbine and small battery bank.

1937 Lister D

1918 Lister L

AdeV

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 08:10:37 AM »
this is my first post so forgive me if I am writing about something that makes all you harden lister veterans eyes roll.

I have purchased a 6/1 SOM which I am struggling to find any details of or even an image of one that looks like mine.

The only eye-rolling will be jealousy that you have an interesting - possibly unique - machine! I've seen Listers set up with a direct shaft drive to a DC generator/dynamo (this was usually the 9/1, which was basically a single cylinder JP engine rather than the usual CS, one solid flywheel).

Basically it came out of an Exeter police station ... I am guessing it is quite an early one.

If you've got the serial number - from the info plate, it'll also be stamped in the outer rim of each flywheel if the plate is missing, then we can date it to the nearest year.

The strange thing is it has two gen heads connected by a shaft , one says "generator" on it and I have put 24V into this and the belt happily drives the lister and starts it , the other head says "alternator" 220 -240v ....

My question is I cant work out how the batteries get charged the "generator head" does not seem to put out any voltage (yet happily spins when I apply voltage , is there a blocking dioide preventing the current going back??) 

Alternators are a black art to me, I'm afraid, although there are plenty of knowledgeable types here who will surely come up with an answer. As to the generator - that's presumably the original 2.5kw Lister unit; it should take 24v DC to start, the SoM box then does some trickery which starts outputing 250vAC. Or should do. Could be you've got a burnt out wire somewhere. I don't recall if these need residual magnetism to generate. Unfortunately, my own original SOM generator is toast, I've had to replace it with a boggo ST5 alternator & separate starter motor.

Anyway, as Oiler said - pictures are always welcome! If you re-size any pictures down to 800x600 or thereabouts, you can attach them directly to a message (click "Attachments and other options, below the message edit box); we also have our own photobucket-a-like hosting service, there's details in the Members Only forum as I recall, or maybe the General forum. It should be a sticky post & therefore at the top.

Cheers!
Ade.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Bohana

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 07:06:45 PM »
Thanks for your replies chaps , I am making good progress with the control box (which was a three man lift just getting it in) I now have the 24V generator giving out 33 volts once the lister is up and running , this 33volts DC is then exciting the coils on the alternator which is now giving out a healthy BUT over voltage 290v AC , there is a voltage adjuster on the control board which adjusts the DC voltage into the exciter circuit and in turn adjusts the AC output (I need to give it a good clean and test).

The lister seems to have started life as a 5/1 then at some point upgraded to a 6/1 , you can see where lister have re-stamped the 5 with a 6 on the serial number plate.

I will post PICs as soon as I can


Thanks again
 

AdeV

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 11:45:24 PM »
Unless it's a very early model, the only difference between the 5/1 and the 6/1 was the rated speed (650rpm for the latter, 600rpm for the former). And I'm not even sure there was a mechanical difference for the first ones. The 3/1 (and 3.5/1) engines had a thinner crankshaft IIRC.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

mikenash

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 03:17:19 AM »
I wonder if maybe the higher voltage related to higher RPMs?  Original 5/1 at 600 and later 6/1 at 650?

Or maybe that's just dumbass layman-doesn't-understand-electrical-generation thinking?

Bohana

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2020, 04:49:36 PM »
Thanks chaps,

I understand the only difference is the speed they run at , although I do find it interesting this seems to be an "official"  lister mod as they have re-stamped over the 5 with a 6 , I guess being a police gen set they would have done everything official.

I dont think the high voltage is down to the higher speed as the genset only started throwing out AC from the alternator when I moved the big handle on the front of the control panel marked up "voltage adjustment" which moved a contact up and down on a huge resistor ..... it had become dirty and was failing to make a proper contact .... so I just need to adjust things and get it correct.

I have finally got some pics so if you guys can give any advice it would be 100% welcome .

Bohana

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2020, 04:50:55 PM »
this is the labels on the 2 gen heads

AdeV

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2020, 07:17:14 PM »
NICE setup, and it looks to be in lovely condition too. I bet it's got almost no hours on it...

Can you get the serial number off the engine? We can have a go at dating it then...

There's two main formats:

CSxxxxxx

and

CS xxxx 51 y R or CS xxxx 61 y R (probably no spaces).

There'll be an "R" in there somewhere to indicate it's radiator cooled, if it's the second format.

The first format was used up until 1952, thereafter the second format. In the second version, the number after the engine model is the year - add 50 to it to get the year of manufacture. e.g. CS0001513 would be the 1st engine off the line, a 5/1, made in 1953.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Bohana

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2020, 12:14:11 PM »
HI Chaps

I thought I would give you an update of where I am so far ......

I have rigged the control panel to mains via a plug (this lets me simulate power loss on the incoming grid) .....

Success I have put a load on the outgoing ac line (from the control panel) and the ac alternator happily boils a kettle :)

I had problems with the decompressor / fuel cut off solenoid sadly it was totally burnt out and no longer functioning but I have been able to fit a small linear actuator in the housing which actually is a much better solution as once the actuator has lifted the decompression lever it no longer requires power so the chances of it burning out out as compared to the solenoid (which needs constant power to stay up) is zero.

so pretty chuffed with it all at the moment ... the last thing I need to get working is the voltage meter which sadly is not working and I really want this old brass dial to work it would look great.

As for the numbers on the engine I have added a pic of the plate in the hope some of you guys can help me age the engine

Thanks again 

Hugh Conway

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2020, 06:37:03 PM »
Bohana
Nice one! Looking at Peter Forbes Old Engine page indicates your Start-O dates to 1944.
Here's the link:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/EngineDating/Dating.htm
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

saba

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2020, 07:35:10 PM »
Thanks for the pictures. Nice machine!
Bernhard

StrawHat

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Re: Lister 6/1 startomatic
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 07:18:12 AM »


I had problems with the decompressor / fuel cut off solenoid sadly it was totally burnt out and no longer functioning but I have been able to fit a small linear actuator in the housing which actually is a much better solution as once the actuator has lifted the decompression lever it no longer requires power so the chances of it burning out out as compared to the solenoid (which needs constant power to stay up) is zero.



One thing I like about real old school technology is anything that burns out can almost always be rewound! The rewind will always be much more durable using modern wire and varnish too. I have done this before on several electromechanical devices.