Author Topic: Centrifuges Really Work  (Read 9006 times)

snowman18

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 05:44:26 AM »
I've added 400 ml of water, 10:00 pm Sunday evening.

That is a LOT of water to add to that amount of oil.
That much water would settle out in time and the majority would be on the bottom of the drum it was in. The dissolved water content will still be high in the oil that will sit above the water and rubbish layer but there is no way that after an appropriate settling period that much water will stay dissolved in the oil.

Are you trying to see how long it will take to get the water out?  If so, I'd say your test is unrealistic for the reasons above.  Standard practice with veg is to settle the oil out ( I like a min of 6 Months myself) which drops the free water and the great majority of the contaminants. You then pump the clean oil off the top of the drum or tank and process that.

You to me are " sabotaging" your test and making it overly difficult and impractical.  I would settle the oil at least a week, heating it to about 20oC over ambient will speed the process of the free water dropping out and then test  the oil that will sit on top of the water that will b on the bottom with other particles which will fall out of suspension.

I think this would give you a much more real world test and results rather than what you are doing now which is making it overly difficult for your method to succeed and possibly giving negative outcomes to what may prove to be a new and beneficial method of drying.

I never expected that the whole 400 ml of water would stay with the oil, after an hour and a half there is now a layer of separation.

I've upgraded the DC power supply to 12 Volts DC at 30 amps, I will make a daily report on this experiment for one week.

My shop at the moment is not heated and it's freezing outside. Warming the oil wouldn't hurt but going do do this with out.

With the oil being cold and thick I'll give it a stir once a day to help disperse the bubbles, if any appear.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 05:47:38 AM by snowman18 »

snowman18

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 01:45:53 AM »
To cold in the shop, I've terminated the experiment.

snowman18

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2019, 06:47:38 AM »
In part because of the cold, and the water no longer had the propertys required to carry a current, could have added a small amount of table salt to encourage the flow of current.

I made the mistake of using the same oil for the second experiment, I figure the salts and nitrates from the foods cooked in the was electrically changed. If I had PH test strips on hand I could verify if any changes that may have taken place.

Electrolysis of salt water produces chlorine gas and hydrogen along with caustic soda all of which would have damaged my titanium electrodes.

In the near future I plan to plantinise the surfaces of these titanium electrodes to use in other electro chemistry projects.

In this tube video he as added baking soda to make the water conductive, which in my opinion would not adulterate the oil for our use.

Baking soda is basic, ph 7 is neutral number below that are acidic and above are basic. I figure if you added in and dissolved enough baking soda to bring the ph to around 8 your in the money for drying your waste oil.

The procedure shown in the video is producing oxygen and hydrogen


https://youtu.be/HQ9Fhd7P_HA



« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 06:54:50 AM by snowman18 »

snowman18

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 06:51:17 AM »
Now this looks like an interesting read then off to do some research on patent numbers.

 Catalyst frees hydrogen from seawater

New solar-powered electrolysis system avoids briny bugbears like chlorine production

by Mark Peplow
March 30, 2018

https://cen.acs.org/energy/hydrogen-power/Catalyst-frees-hydrogen-seawater/96/web/2018/03
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 08:22:48 AM by snowman18 »

veggie

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2019, 02:34:43 PM »
I thought the knowledge of water separation was generally understood after all of us "pioneers" tried multiple solutions, sometimes with very messy results.
Like when a hose broke on one of my VO cleaning experiments (pump still running of course) while I was away from the garage for 20 minutes. VO covered the whole floor.
Lesson learned.... no more barbed fitting with hose clamps on the pressure side of a system ! Threaded connection only.
We all have our stories as we earned our right of passage.  ;D
I digress...
With the advent of the high "G" centrifuges and heat applied to the oil on the way into the centrifuge, water is pretty much eliminated and the output from the machine is clean dry oil.
Steam exiting the vent of the centrifuge is the exit point for water. And multiple passes through the centrifuge make it even better.
If you have the space for multiple vessels, settling is super simple and effective too, but takes way to long for me and I don't have the space to keep multiple 200 liter drums or 1000 liter IBC totes in my yard.
Small batches through a heated centrifuge is fast and clean.

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EdDee

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 08:52:11 AM »
Hey guys,

My less than 1c's worth....

I cold fuge my oils, granted they're WMO, slightly thinned with waste mineral turps, mainly fuge'ing to remove solids and water. The turps originates from a chainsaw wash bay, full of sand, metal filings, water, dust and goodness knows what. The WMO is from various backyard sources, mystery oil, gearbox, sump, diff, grease, dead kittens and puppies included.... This oil goes mostly to my burners these days, but I wouldn't hesitate to run it through the listers in an emergency...

Home made Hi-G fuge, single pass, low flow rate (its a tiny little fuge with the cup being less than 100dia and 100high...

The oils, on exit, are cold, the housing of the fuge barely warm... The air pressure in the fuge is slightly below atmospheric... During spinning of very wet oils and waterlogged diesel, I set the feed flow rate to just borderline water vapour expulsion.... This is not hot steam, but cold mist that emanates - I have some theories as to why, but no substantiated proof as such. At this flow rate, the spun product leaves the unit with little to no water content. But, it is a slow process... My targets for fuel production are but 3 to 4times my consumption... Meaning that I have a scaled down micro version that outputs about 10-20L per hour, depending on contaminant levels... (This is sludge we're talking about here...)

On polishing diesel or other liquids without heavy contamination, I could up the throughput substantially, as I have done in the past.... (Less than a 1% water/contamination level by volume)... The output product is significantly cleaner than store bought fresh diesel when viewed under a microscope.

As to energy usage - 100 to 150W, a little more when the scavenge pump kicks in, easily supplied by a small inverter/toy solar setup during daytime, load on a genset for night operation during emergency is more than tolerable as I use a VFD to control the fuge with soft start/stop... So, after a whole lot of rambling, NO, its not "heated steam" but a cold mist, keep the g's high enough and the flow within the limits of the cup, and you don't need to heat the input product either..... Well, not me, anyway.... But then I do everything arse backwards.... LOL....

Cheerz
Ed
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veggie

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 02:31:21 PM »
 
Quote

In this scenario, the fuge is not eliminating the water, the added heat, presumably near the boiling point of water is. That is a lot of energy for even a 200L batch and if you are heating it electrically, a fairly slow and expensive process.

On a 20oC day at around 60% Humidity, I can dry and filter a 200L batch of oil in 30 min with well under .5 Kwh of power used with the bubbling/ pumping method.

Yes, the fuge is eliminating water. When you spin warm oil at 5000 g's at a very low flow rate (high retention time) the portion with the heavier specific gravity (water) is separated and pinned against the back ball of the centrifuge drum along with fats and particles. The clean oil continues on.

Define slow and expensive. My system draws 2.5 kw when running. For an 8 hour batch that's 20kw worth of power.
At $0.08 per kwh that amounts to $1.60 per batch of 80 gallons (300 liters).

« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 02:37:59 PM by veggie »
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veggie

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 04:14:55 PM »

20Kwh, 8 hours, 300L??  Yep, nothing has changed.  Still energy intensive, slow and expensive.
Spose as long as we are happy with what we prefer, that's all that matters.

Hey Glort,
I suppose if you consider $0.0053 per liter expensive then you would be correct.
($1.60 per 300 liters)

You tried various methods and prefer settling. I tried various methods and settled on Spinning.
Everyone has their own set of circumstances and constraints. Mine are very limited space and limited batch sizes.
As long as it works, it really does not matter what system a person uses.

cheers mate  ;)

« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 04:19:32 PM by veggie »
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veggie

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Re: Centrifuges Really Work
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 07:50:45 PM »
Yes. The price is steep for the centrifuge setup. I have a few buddies who bought them.
In my case I just bought the machined/balanced bowl and built the rest from scrounged metal.

I wonder how much longer WVO will be avialable in my area. 2 new companies have opened which set up free waste removal for restaurants. There we already several in operation. They process the VO on a large scale. Cleaning it for some use. I don't think it's for biodiesel because it's not economically feasible here. One by one restaurants are accepting their collection bin for waste oil dumping. Small VO collectors are running out of supply.
These companies even pick up from private users. One of my friends had too much to process. He called them and they drove over with a vacuum truck and sucked WVO from two 1000 ltr IBC totes that he had.

Since the drop in Biodiesel interest there has not been much competition to get WVO. But with these new commercial processors, the remaining few home brewers are having trouble getting feedstock.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 07:52:21 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)