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Author Topic: Listeroid Oil Change Interval  (Read 346 times)

veggie

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Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« on: October 24, 2019, 12:26:55 AM »
The original oil change intervals set for Lister CS engines were determined back in the 1940's era.
Oils of that vintage may not have been of the same quality and molecular blend as today's oils.
So I'm wondering if we can extend the recommended interval from 250 hrs to something longer?

Reasoning:
1] Most of the newer listeroid variants have roller bearings instead of sleeve bearings on the crank.
This reduces frictional shear at the bearings and makes for a cooler running bearing. Less demand on the oil.

2] Low temperature requirements. The sump is far from the cylinder head & cylinder and the oil is not circulated up to the head where it can gain heat so the whole oil system runs at a fairly low temperature of something like 130f.
Heat breakdown is probably not existent.

3] Today's good quality oils have superior molecular chains and bonds with great fluid film strength properties and oxidation resistance.

I realize that many users simply buy the cheapest basic oil they can find and then change every 250 hrs or less.
That's fine too. But what are your thoughts on longer duration intervals?
I am in the process of adding a small 12 volt gear pump and an inline automotive filter to my Roid again.
The pump will be on a timer relay which runs the filter system on a 50% duty cycle of 10 minutes on...10 minutes off when ever the engine is running.
So the oil should be kept fairly clean.
I was thinking of extending the oil change interval to 500 hrs.

Anyone experimented with longer oil change intervals ?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 12:30:22 AM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

glort

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Re: Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2019, 05:28:59 AM »

 I was reading your reasonings and thinking, " What about the dirt?" but you have that covered with the filter. Second thought is what about the dirt? It's only going to be carbon, not like the engine will fill with metal particles over night so probably nothing of consequence to worry about anyhow.

I agree with the rest of your reasoning on oil quality and life.  Back then oils would be like 25 years ago when I had a 386 Computer with an 80 MB Hdd. No one would have even been able to conceive multi terabyte drives now like we take for granted same as they would have not imagined oil qualities like we have today. 

I think a 500 Hr run would still be conservative. That surmises oil is twice as good as it was 50 years ago. I don't know much about oils but I would tend to think oils are probably 10-20X better than what they were back then.
I read a white paper some time back which I have since lost and cannot find again that said these days, changing the filter on an engine was more important than changing the oil. It said the oils were so good and resilient the downfall was the filter which may block and then by pass. this was mainly  written in context of heavy machinery working in dusty conditions but still I think is relevant.

As you are addressing the filtration issue, I don't think there should be any problem at all

I also understand these engines can burn a bit of oil. My own was OK but it never got to 500 hours yet.  If you have replaced half the oil on top ups, then the oil is doing less than 500 Hours anyway. I don't know what the typical oil consumption on these engine is but I seem to recall it's not insignificant.
I know some industrial Diesels are now set up to burn a prescribed amount of oil so it's never changed, it's automatically and constantly topped up.
Only thing that is changed are the filters.

You could calculate how many hours for an engine to burn the amount in the sump and if that's less than 500 Hours, It's had an oil change by then anyway.

The other thing I always think of now is how long should an engine actually last? There is no set number but If you did halve the useful life, would you even know? Especially with a roid? There are a bunch of known problems that are far likley to occur before the thing needs rebuilding because you extended the oil changes.
Way I figure it, I probably don't have enough years left in me to see an engine need a rebuild even if I halve its life.

 I'll probably end up on the scrap heap  before any of my engines do. :0)

mike90045

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Re: Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2019, 06:59:48 AM »
my worry is moisture/water build up.  the oil never gets hot enough to dry out. 

I believe there is a fair amount of blowby and acid production into the oil, and I've never liked acid and bearings living together.

AdeV

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Re: Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2019, 08:26:10 AM »
my worry is moisture/water build up.  the oil never gets hot enough to dry out. 

I believe there is a fair amount of blowby and acid production into the oil, and I've never liked acid and bearings living together.

A possible solution to that issue would be to install a fine mesh at the bottom of the sump, covering (say) the bottom 1/2". Any water (which is how the acids get around, since you don't get acidic oil), would tend to settle down below the mesh. The purpose of the mesh is to prevent it getting sploshed up into th engine when it's running. (By the way... I have no idea if that would work, you might need a solid screen, with only a tiny hole to allow moisture in the oil to fall through). Anyway... assuming you can keep a small moisture-trap space below the sump from being unduly disturbed during running, this could be periodically drained manually. It wouldn't take long before you got an idea of how much water was coming out of the engine, and thus the drain intervals. And it keeps the acid out of the way...

Just thinking out loud, really... feel free to poke holes in the above.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

veggie

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Re: Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2019, 02:49:06 PM »
my worry is moisture/water build up.  the oil never gets hot enough to dry out. 

I believe there is a fair amount of blowby and acid production into the oil, and I've never liked acid and bearings living together.

Good point.
I installed a better crankcase breather system on my engine. The breather has a check valve on it's way to the air intake filter so the air blown out by the piston cannot get back into the crankcase.
When the engine is running and I disconnect the tube to look at the flow, there is a considerable amount of air movement through the tube.
That big piston displaces a lot of space in the crankcase when it moves from TDC to the bottom of it's stroke.
I wonder if that constant replacement of air along with oil at 140f would be enough to carry away water vapour along with the other crankcase gasses?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 02:55:33 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

veggie

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Re: Listeroid Oil Change Interval
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 02:51:39 PM »
I'm currently finalizing the tubing from the engine to the oil pump and onward to the oil filter.
I will post some pictures of the crank ventilation and filtration system after I'm done.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw