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Author Topic: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?  (Read 2587 times)

glort

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2019, 07:04:57 AM »

Well, you guys aren't exactly slinging acid, but you sure know how to Fart in each others general direction.

 :o

It's OK, I'm done.
We have in the past tried to help each other ( well Bruce has probably helped me more than I have helped him) and agreed on quite a bit but I guess we have found a point of disagreement.

BruceM

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2019, 08:40:21 AM »
Amen.



mike90045

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2019, 03:20:32 PM »
Kalifornia is in a downward spiral.  The whole thing is topsy turvey.
 San Francisco is the leader of insanity, followed by Santa Monica & Vence
Because of folks living in tents and using drugs, the sidewalks are nearly impassible, solution -
Ban private cars from main street
 Plastic pollution ending up in ocean - Ban straws, but it's ok to hand out sterile needles with plastic syringes, to be discarded on the beach sand.  You HAVE to wear shoes to the beach, or risk stepping on a used needle.
Water from rivers being sold to southern kalifornia - Prohibit using water from the river in my backyard, so there is enough to go around.   
Dammed Sonoma Dodder plants ( grape vines )  are sucking up water like mad, but the salmon are dying off

Stores cant install backup power generators, because the fees, permits and regulations cost more annually than the expenses from blackouts.
We cant allow the trees by power lines to be trimmed, so we must shut off the power for 3 days for your safety

The state is seething with example after example of idiots leading the way downhill.

Born and lived here all my life, but it's now become a loony bin


dkmc

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2019, 03:40:19 PM »
Stores cant install backup power generators, because the fees, permits and regulations cost more annually than the expenses from blackouts.

I saw that in a vid earlier this week. Grocery store ended up giving away the contents of the freezers.
That just seems totally unjust......and complete lunacy. The MAN wants to be in total control of you, and needs you to be helpless.

LowGear

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2019, 04:12:14 PM »
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light. 
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dkmc

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2019, 04:30:32 PM »
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light.

Good question.....
What is 'right'??
AFAIK even in New York State, you are allowed to purchase, install, and operate an emergency generator with no 'fees'.
I'm sure the install must meet electrical codes, and possibly a building permit may be required, but those are standard.
There are many businesses of all sizes around here with back up generators.
I'd like to know what all IS required in Cali, that it makes loosing an entire store freezer section less costly than having
a back up gen set.

mikenash

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2019, 05:35:11 PM »
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light.

We've got some of it right-ish here, although a combination of Free Market influences on government policy and pendulum-swung-too-far Green/Liberal influences on legislation are threatening . . .

However anyone can and does collect rainwater or run a permit-free domestic water bore.  Business folks are encouraged to run back-up generators in recognition of the run-down infrastructure (that Free Market stuff again) and in recognition of the increase in severe weather events

Communities are encouraged to develop resiliance (the aforementioned Free Market Model has allowed roading & other essential infrastructure to degrade as contractior/utility companies have pocketed huge profits) and initiatives around solar, small-community wireless internet etc are common

As a nation we are grappling with how to reverse the degradation of our natural resources that is the result of a century of exploitation - without damaging the economy too badly

It's not that place it used to be (although I guess old folks always say that) but it's still a great place to live

mike90045

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2019, 07:22:44 PM »
After you get a permit for a emergency backup generator (limited to <200 hours operation per year )
http://www.aqmd.gov/home/permits/emergency-generators#Fact4

And pay all the local, state and AQMD ( Air Quality Management District )   you can then begin to pursue the purchase and installation of a generator.  Do not even pour the concrete pad to allow for proper cure time, you will be in volition, until you have the permit.
    and it just gets worse....   So basically, only Hospitals have backup generation.
And don't forget to renew that permit......

Our last outage (Oct 9 2019) lasted for about 3 days, 72 hours of your generator time gone.  It's not unusual to get 2 to 4 Santa Anna / Diablo wind events each fall.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/PG-E-power-shut-off-Diablo-winds-to-blame-for-14501564.php

LowGear

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2019, 10:21:30 AM »
I'm totally underwhelmed. 

I ask again.  Where are they doing it right?

I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.)

What would you think of requiring an instillation of one kilowatt of solar for every kilowatt of generator capacity?  Do we temper the requirements for propane generators over diesel?

On a sidebar; does anyone know the justification / rational of banning rainwater collection and storage?
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glort

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2019, 01:14:17 PM »

Born and lived here all my life, but it's now become a loony bin

Guess it's not what's said but who says it.

mike90045

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2019, 05:42:51 PM »
I'm totally underwhelmed. 

I ask again.  Where are they doing it right? 
  I don't know, I've not been there.
More right, would be to allow the use of a generator, in an emergency.  Not a 2 hour outage, but in a situation where the grid has failed and it's more than 6 hours before it's expected to return.  if I ran a food store, and my inventory was about to spoil, and it takes 2 years to get a business insurance claim cleared, that would be an emergency and I would want to start a generator to preserve my investment.  Or to be able to pump gasoline for the next 3 days.   Or to keep the kidney dialysis center open and cleaning folks blood.



Quote
I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.) 
 
 They do pollute.  So in an emergency, is it better to have 1 big generator parked at a sub-station feeding the local grid, or folks at random, wiring generators up to their house, spilling gasoline, putting a generator under a window and die from CO poisoning ?

Quote
What would you think of requiring an instillation of one kilowatt of solar for every kilowatt of generator capacity?  Do we temper the requirements for propane generators over diesel?
Nice idea, solar only works 6 hours of the day, generator has to pick that slack up at night.

Quote
On a sidebar; does anyone know the justification / rational of banning rainwater collection and storage?
Control of worker drones?

glort

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2019, 10:24:31 PM »
I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.)

What about the health aspect?
With so many people apparently having wells.  Without power, no water, no sanitation.  Given the scale of the outage I don't know if even town water was available.  Disease is also a big concern in any emergency.

Then there is the food and Fuel supply issue.
This outage lasted 3-4?  Days. What if it was hot and windy for a fortnight? People could easy run out of food and water and die from the heat without power and shops would have thrown good food out because they couldn't keep it.  People may also not be abe to get to what was available.

And all this risk because the gubbermeint there is concerned about some air pollution which would be so small as to be completely immeasurable anyway. That is irresponsible and illogical to put some ideal before the health and safety of a million citizens.

What would be logical if they are so against people having generators would be to ENSURE the power supply was as well maintained and reliable as possible which they clearly haven't done.

Anyone that wants to live in a place that won't let it's citizens have a basic amount of self sufficiency with power and water can have it far as i'm concerned and they can be as upset as they like about that statement.  What is more important that the well being and safety of a states citizens especially in times of emergency?
Certainly not some narrow minded and very temporary air pollution  concern!

As far as solar, I'm hoping to get my hands on a board that has been made for developing countries to supply 1.2Kw of power direct from solar panels with or without battery backup.  They are 12 or 24V based so could be hooked up to a battery in a  car or truck. Something my Nephew has developed and his company has sold it to a few asian countries so far.  He's working on MkII and he has offered me some to play with for product testing and evaluation.

I am thinking about trying to sell them in the western market because I can see a LOT of use for them in situations like this and just as on off grid application where batteries are not needed. The next generation of board he is working on will be aiming for around the 2 KW mark.  Even if only used direct from panels, that's a real good amount of power to be able to run pumps and refrigeration from.

I spose calipornia would want some hefty licensing fees to throw some panels on your lawn in an emergency as well.

dkmc

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2019, 11:11:09 PM »
I spose calipornia would want some hefty licensing fees to throw some panels on your lawn in an emergency as well.

Naw, outlaw them completely as well. The sooner the sheeple get hungry and thirsty, the sooner and easier it is to control them or round them up. Is it possible this shut-off exercise was a test to see how they handled themselves? Gotta be room for just one more conspiracy theory....

glort

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2019, 07:42:57 AM »

I don't disregard as anything being too far fetched for possibility these days. The more far fetched something sounds the greater it's natural inbuilt cover I think.

In this case though I think it may have just been arse protecting.  They know they have let their infrastructure get run down, they have been blamed for their neglect causing problems before, this was a perfect excuse to scare people into letting them get away with said neglect and it's ramifications and have them say nothing.

Case of you complained when we didn't cut power, you complained when we did cut it, which way you want it?
Great way to distract attention from the fact the grid never should have been allowed to get into the state it is in anyway.  Now it has, chances are they will ask the gubbermint for huge handouts to get it back the way it should be had they spent the money they should have rather than syphoning it off into payouts for directors and Shareholders.

Not just commifornia companies that work this way, seem to be a mindset of business whom are playing gubbermints more than ever.

LowGear

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Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2019, 09:10:25 PM »
I have tried to lead you to the fresh water.  It is to splash upon your head rather than drink it; it can do more good. 

I have an apartment house (five units) which is on a well.  The power went out for 5 days.  I couldn't get any repair priority because the rules don't have any exceptions for wells.  This is one of the problems with city people writing the rules that quasi country folk have to live with.  I'll find the power requirements and start a thread about which generator or battery pack to install that will be exercised every couple of years.

I still hope for some good or smart examples of how some bureaucracy is handling emergency power.
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