Author Topic: help with Lister D  (Read 1274 times)

rich p

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help with Lister D
« on: September 25, 2019, 12:07:15 PM »
Hi Guys new here so ill start with a sorry as im a complete novice.

I've had this Lister d for a few years, started it a few times ran well, i tried starting it again at the weekend..nothing, even with a new plug, i say new out of the box never been used. I don't have a meter only my fingers to see if there's a kick when i grab the lead, there is but it's more like a small squeeze than a kick, not sure on how much it should give off, like i say novice. The mag photos ive enclosed as reading one of the posts its helpful for pictures (i can do that) & i've tried lots of "start ya bastard" lol thats made me chuckle ever since i read it thx for brighten up my day/days, cobbadog. i'm not sure of the make of the mag tho i cant help the ML might mean something.




cobbadog

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2019, 12:47:20 PM »
Sounds as if your magneto is the problem. you will have to do a few things to establish what the problem is and start with the simple stuff first then progress along to when you can't go any further.
When testing any magneto NEVER spin it with out the HT lead being able to jump the spark to the body of the maggy or hold the terminal on the body. Not doing this will cause a bad coil.

1 - Clean and then re-clean your points and gap them. Try between 0.012" - 0.015".
2 - If you have a multimeter check continuity of the HT lead.
3 - Again with the meter check your condensor and coil.
4 - If you wanted to spend money that you may not have had to you then start buying a condensor first then a coil.
5 - There is an alternative to using a condensor in magnetos and they are called a film capacitor. Cheap to buy and more reliable than the old style condensors. Electronic stores sell them or ebay and you will need one with the values of;
2.2Uf  640V. You need to insulate one of the wires and connect it as per a condensor one wire to ground and the other to the points

If you dont have a meter you are stuck between a rock and a hard place and you will need to find a magneto repairer near you. I used Google to find a repairer and the only one that could help with a very special coil was in S.A. and I'm in NSW but he did a great job.
What country are you in?
Are you a member of a restoration club, they may have someone in the club that can help.
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rich p

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 01:08:39 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

yes i had the plug in the engine & turnt it over, i hope i haven't done any damage. what's the best thing to clean the points?

I from England, i will have a look on google for both club & repairs, I might have a mate that has a meter what should the reading be?
 

ajaffa1

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2019, 02:13:07 PM »
Hi Rich P, welcome to the forum. Do not ever be afraid of being a Newbie and not knowing something, that is the sole purpose of forums like this, tired old guys like me are too old to do the work so we love telling you younger fellas how to do it!  :laugh:

I am no expert on the Lister D but I am old enough to have worked on a lot of vintage engines with magnetos, a D is only a single so we don`t have to consider the distributor cap, therefore there are only seven basic problems that can eliminate your spark:

1. burned out magneto coil. The worst thing to happen and the most expensive to fix. Fortunately you report getting a Buzz from the High tension lead, so we can probably rule that out.

2. Failed High Tension lead from the magneto to the spark plug. This is very common as the old rubber insulation deteriorates with time. Try cranking your engine in the dark and watch for sparks running up the outside of the HT lead. If this is the case replace the HT cable. (cheap and easy)

3. Worn points or incorrect points gap, this is unlikely as your engine was running well previously. It is common for the points to corrode in a wet/damp climate. Clean them with a piece of fine emery cloth. I do not know what the points gap should be for your magneto but I would guess at 10 to 12 thousands of an inch. If you do not have feeler gauges then A4 paper is generally between 2 and 3 thousandths thick, so three strips is too little and four is too much, four strips of paper with a little pressure should get you in the ball park.

4. Condenser failure, these are an electrolytic capacitor and have a finite life. When they begin to fail you end up with a diminished spark and eventually no spark. My best guess is that this fits well with the problem you have. A replacement should be available from Stationary engine parts in the UK or any number of online web sites.

5. Timing, I very much doubt that the spark/ignition timing would have altered since you last ran your engine unless you have been tinkering with it. If you have please let me know and I will try to walk you through resetting it.

6. Corrosion, it is very common to get corrosion between dissimilar metals IE aluminium and steel, for a spark to work it must be able to return to its source via the chassis of the engine and back to the magneto. If you have  rust/aluminium oxide between the two then your spark will deteriorate.

7.Magnetos are so called because they contain a magnet, it is possible but unlikely that the iron core has lost some of it`s magnetism. It is possible to re-magnetize them but this requires specialist equipment.

Hope this is helps,

Bob

rich p

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »
Hey thank you Bob, Iíll go through the list, Iíve not touched the timings, I left the engine to the front of the garage covered so maybe the damp has got in somewhere, somehow Iíll keep you informed

rich p

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 07:45:52 PM »
Omg, thanks so much lads we only been & done this 👍🏽👍🏽 I canít remember how old she is but if Iím up & running at this age Iíll be happy yayaya beer to celebrate its music to my ears YES, & only one special world in her ear.

rich p

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 08:18:15 PM »
Lol sorry got all excited, I think it was dirty points, I can report that there working well as i definitely got a couple wacks lol yes they were kicks on the finger gauge ouch!!!

AdeV

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 05:42:26 PM »

... It is common for the points to corrode in a wet/damp climate. ... 6. Corrosion

Bob - England is, basically, a synonym for wet/damp climate! The further North and West you go, the wetter it gets....

As a result, we are all too familiar with corrosion! The typical lifespan of a 1980s car here was about 10 years... engine/box/interior still fine, but the body rotted off them. The average lifespan of a 1980s Italian car in the UK was about 10 weeks..... they used much thinner or poorer steel. Mind you, that was as nothing to the legendary "British Leyland Friday Afternoon" car, which not only frequently had bits missing, but often came out of the factory rusty! (no joke)

Rich - glad you got your motor running :)
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

rich p

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2019, 06:45:32 PM »
Lol yes your right

Is there anything I can use/spray on the points to stop them getting damp?

mike90045

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 05:11:26 AM »
What about a lawnmower electronic ignition system ?

cobbadog

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 05:56:27 AM »
Hi mike, I haven't used a lawn mower ignition module but I don't think it would work. One of the most common fails are the dirty points followed by condensor fail. Lately I do not replace the failed condensor with the same, I use something called a film capacitor with a value 0f 2.2Mf and 640V. I buy ceramic ones and they are far more reliable than the original part.
Glad you are up and running Rich
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ajaffa1

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 03:13:09 PM »
Hi Guys, firstly a huge well done to Rich P for sorting out the problem and I hope he gets many years of joy from his engine. I hope his fingers have recovered from the belt he got!  :laugh:

Hi AdeV, I lived in the UK for fifty years and I know how cold wet and miserable life there can be. I now live in Australia so I also know how hot, dry and miserable life can be here. The only advantage of living where I do is motor vehicles usually last three times as long because they are not exposed to the salt on the roads used to combat frost. I would never buy a vehicle that had been used here in a coastal environment either. There a vehicles in central Australia that are forty years old and still have no rust, the engines, bearings and seals are f*cked due to the dust and terrible roads but that can all be fixed, rotten bodywork can`t be.

Hi Mike, I think a small engine ignition system could be made to work, it would not be too difficult to remove the Lister D timing chain sprocket and replace it with the magnetic fan assembly from a small modern engine (Weed wacker or leaf blower) , you would then need to fabricate a mounting for the magneto coil and work out how to time it. Shouldn`t be too difficult.

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: help with Lister D
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 09:10:40 PM »
Or just keep the points, add a condenser, a switch and a coil. if you don't want a 6/12v charging system - whatever your coil needs - run it total loss, a 'knackered' 12v car battery will keep a stationary engine going for days, before it will need recharging.

Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.