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Author Topic: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start  (Read 811 times)

Davprin

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LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« on: September 23, 2019, 04:04:10 AM »
Hello, I'm new to these forums and have a couple of questions.

I have what I believe to be an LD1 from around 1960 (LD1 10) and which was originally an SOM. There is no external control box and it apparently was modified to run as a backup generator utilising manual crank start only.

My questions centre around the engine control levers shown in one of the attached photos. The rearmost lever obviously was connected to a linkage which I presume operated the rack for speed control. The front lever looks like a weighted lever which does not seem to have been connected to anything. It does appear to have a pawl which can rotate around the arc in the rearmost lever. It looks like that pawl may be spring loaded down in the weighted section but it does not want to move with moderate pressure with a screwdriver

So, are my presumption correct and how would I operate these levers manually to start and run the engine, please?

I have attached some photos to show what I have. Thanks for reading

oldgoat

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2019, 11:11:02 AM »
The lever in photo 2 is the throttle but you shouldn't need to touch it until you want to shut the engine down. Rotate it towards the front and it cuts off the fuel. In the top box hopefully you will still have the starter solenoid and
some of the other resistors if they haven't been scrapped. So operate the decompressor( poking out the side of the rocker cover) crank it up and go.

Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 11:16:43 PM »
Many thanks for the info. Unfortunately, all the solenoids and associated gear and linkages have been removed from the engine. When I got this unit, there was a 4 gallon galvanised sheet metal tank mounted there and what is there now is a Briggs and Stratton fuel tank that I fitted temporarily to get the engine started.

So that unattached throttle lever should find its resting position according to the spring tension on the adjustable rack push rod, is that correct? At the moment, I can move that lever back and forth without feeling any spring resistance. I will remove some of the covers and check a bit further so see what I have.

Cheers from Queensland, Australia.

ajaffa1

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 01:09:45 AM »
Hi Davprin, what a pity that the SOM control panel and the two solenoids are missing.

The small lever with the hole in it is the fuel shut off, it is in the fuel off position it needs to be lifted to release the fuel rack before trying to start it. Engine RPM is adjusted by undoing the small locking bolt and rotating the entire assembly. It should run at 1500 RPM to produce 240 volts at 50 Hertz. A cheap hertz meter wired into your generator will help set up the correct RPM, something like this would be ideal https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hertz-AC-Frequency-Meter-LED-Digital-Display-Indicator-Signal-Lamp-Lights-22mm/392062507626?hash=item5b48bf1a6a:m:mPpOj1PSVJzsiuE6zrRBZlw&frcectupt=true

The decompressor lever has gone past it`s working position. It will decompress the valve when it is vertical (12 o'clock position), while cranking the lever needs to be dropped into the 9 o'clock position for the engine to start.

I might know where there is a non running SOM, I haven`t been to see it yet but will post some photos when I do. If the engine is past economic repair you might be able to use the solenoids and control panel to complete your unit. I am near Grafton NSW

Bob

Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 08:33:19 AM »
Gíday Bob.
Many thanks for the information and yes, please let me know the outcome of that other SOM. I could be interested in parts.

Ok on the fuel shut off lever. I removed the fuel pump cover and note that the rack does move through the pump body when I rotate the controls. Is that correct? I guess Iím trying to move the governor linkage when I do that. I found a diagram of that control linkage in an ST manual and that weighted outside lever does have a spring loaded pawl which is seized on mine. I cannot get the securing pin from the shaft to remove it, so I will remove the camshaft end cover and remove the nut and bits so that I can withdraw the whole control assembly and support it in a vice to tap the pin out.

Ok on the frequency meters. I will get one or two ordered.

Cheers
David from Ipswich, Qld.

ajaffa1

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 10:17:01 AM »
Hi David, yes you should be able to manually move the rack against the springs in the governor mechanism, the rack should move smoothly without binding.

The spring loaded pawl is a design flaw, as it is a water trap if the engine is exposed to the elements. I had to replace the spring on mine as it had corroded away to dust. When you reassemble be sure to replace the little rubber o`ring or you will have an oil leak.

I will try to get in touch with Ken (guy with the SOM) this week, his property has full off grid solar so he has no need for the old Lister that has not been run for ten years or more. I do not have any specifications for it but from his verbal description I believe it to be an SR1 which should be compatible with what you are trying to do. I should warn you I will never scrap an engine that is salvageable, if it is scrap I will let you know.

Bob

oldgoat

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 11:14:02 AM »
Davprin I notice you live  just down the road from me,I am at Lowood. If you need to have a look at a S.o.m. plant of the same vintage as yours and a look at the manual send me a private message to arrange a time

Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 06:44:42 AM »
All ok, Bob.
Ok, made some progress today. Removed the camshaft end cover and straight away noticed only one spring on the governor weights but the weights were free to move. Then found the missing spring at the bottom of the housing. Part of the hook on one end had broken off so I have fashioned another hook and that spring should be ok to reuse. Probably only lost half a turn.

Disconnected the linkages and found that I could jiggle the rack in the pump a bit but it would not slide. Took the pump out and using penetrating oil and judicious use of a nylon hammer was able to gradually work the rack back and forward until all of a sudden it got so loose that the rack would slide back and forward with itís own weight. Thinking I may have stripped whatever it moved inside, I disassembled the bottom end of the pump to investigate. But all was well so I reassembled it and itís now back in the engine.

Now on that spring loaded pawl, how did you get yours out. Canít seem to budge mine. Does that little locating pin driven in from the side also retain it? If so, Iíll have to drill it out. Maybe also drill a small hole up from the bottom and drive the pawl out? That would leave a drain hole for future.

Cheers
David

Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 06:46:12 AM »
Hello Oldgoat.

All ok, thanks. I will pm you
David

ajaffa1

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 12:30:36 PM »
Hi David, firstly my advice would be to get some new governor springs, once these have reached the point at which they are worn through or work hardened/brittle they need replacing. Governor springs should be available from Gary at DES in the USA, Sleemen & Hawken or stationary engine parts in the UK, you could try Rob at old timer engines in Australia. I will PM you the mobile phone number of another useful man in Australia, who might be able to help.

I cheated and took off the head allowing me to remove the entire fuel pump cover assembly. I have posted a couple of photos, please ignore the throttle control mechanism which your LD1 would not have. Hope they help.

Bob


Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2019, 07:20:57 AM »
All ok, Bob. I managed to get that little pawl freed up today. Drilled up through the bottom and then was able to tap it out. Spring was nice and shiny so a touch up with wet&dry and it's all ready to go back together.

Do you know the stroke length of the original fuel control and decompression solenoids? I can probably find some modern solenoids to get me up and going for the moment and swap them out if I ever get original types. I can probable fabricate some covers if I can get some dimensions of originals. All the LD1 SOM photos I can find on the net seem to have round covers on both solenoids.

I am thinking of fabricating the wall mounted control panel as well but working out the inductance of that toroidal choke may be a problem. None of the circuits I've seen yet, seem to be a match for my 1961 LD1 SOM. I do have a manual printed in 1959 for 1.5 to 4.5kw soms coming so hopefully that will have a circuit close to mine.

pinecone9

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2019, 12:53:00 PM »
If you still haven't find a non-running SOM to use for parts and want to try  making an automatic
compression release, this might be relevant:

I replaced the decompresion solenoid in an SR-1 with one made for a pellet stove (washing
machine are another possible source).   It took a lot of mechanical adjustment to get it working
just right.  I imagine it would be about the same on an LD-1.

If you or anyone is interested is building an automatic compression release or replacing an
existing solenoid that is no longer available, I can post more information.


Davprin

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2019, 10:43:00 PM »
Yes, I would be interested in your solenoid replacement method. Please post as Iím sure others would be interested as well

David

oldgoat

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 02:04:04 PM »
I would be interested in a few details because the originals are unobtainable.

pinecone9

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Re: LD1 Start-O-Matic modified to manual start
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2019, 10:09:05 AM »
Great!  I'll write something up on shopping for a solenoid and then start a new thread.
It's rather involved, since you are unlikely to find an exact replacement.