Author Topic: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1  (Read 1524 times)

mike90045

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 11:30:21 PM »
Valves,  does your head have seats ?  if not, have some installed, maybe the 6/1 seats fit (Detroit Diesel series 92 valve seats )

Specs I gleaned over the years here:


Tappet Clearances COLD Inlet 0.017" Exhaust 0.032" for 3/1, 5/1, 6/1, 10/2, 12/2.
Tappet clearances for the 8/1 and 16/2 are 0.008" both valves COLD

Valve heads recessed into cylinder head face by 0.055" Min to 0.100" Max
 Bump Clearance 0.045" to 0.050"
  Valve Seats (None OEM)
    Detroit Diesel series 92 valve seats are a very close replacement
 


Valve Timing:- 
 Inlet Opens 5 Deg before TDC and closes 15 Deg after BDC on all engines.
 Exhaust Opens 45 Deg before BDC and closes 5 Deg After TDC for types WITH compresion changeover valves (3/1, 5/1, 6/1,10/2, 12/2)
 Exhaust Opens 55 Deg before BDC and closes 20 Deg After TDC for types WITHOUT compresion changeover valves (8/1, 16/2)

forum link http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7374.0



mikenash

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2019, 01:26:06 AM »
Perhaps worth making the comment that setting valve timing by "clearance" may well not yield these settings?  And that ignoring clearance - as long as there's (a) some, and (b) not so much the rocker arm falls off the pushrod, and setting the valve timing to the two important settings (intake opening and zorst closing) seems to be the rule?

gadget

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2019, 03:32:44 AM »
Valves,  does your head have seats ?  if not, have some installed, maybe the 6/1 seats fit (Detroit Diesel series 92 valve seats )

I didn't see any seats. It may be an upgrade for down the road.

I did notice my piston is not aluminum. Anyone ever get an 8/1 with an iron piston?

BruceM

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2019, 06:24:44 AM »
An iron piston in an 8/1 is a serious Rajkot screwup; that should NOT be run over 650 rpm.  DES will certainly make it right. 

For me, I'd use the stock head  until a new valve seat is needed. I've seen no appreciable valve seat wear after 3000 hrs of service.  The exception is for propane conversion; Gary suggested hard valve seats were a must for that, so we did that on my neighbor's 8/1 conversion.

Checking and correcting the camshaft for bends from cam lobe tapered pin pounding is important and I didn't see anyone mention that.  38ac wrote about this and I sure did find he was right.  Likewise, check valve timing as cam placement is always sloppy. Only rarely, bad enough to warrant correction.  Thus 38ac's method of setting lash to get critical timing events right instead of by lash spec.  If you mark your flywheel for proper intake open and exhaust closed it makes valve setting easy enough once you get used to it.  No feeler gauges needed, you just set to the timing events.

Painting over Rajkot crankcase filler and paint is asking for failure.  It'd take the crankcase interior down to bare metal myself.  Lye solution soak or die grinder, your choice.  The die grinder method is several hours work.

Gadget, I think you made very good choices on supplier, engine type and generator head.  Shows you're savvy and doing your homework.  They can be made into a marvelous slow speed working engine, by someone who isn't afraid of taking their time and watching the details carefully.

Best Wishes,
Bruce

 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 04:07:03 PM by BruceM »

ajaffa1

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2019, 11:21:48 AM »
Hi Gadget, sounds to me like you are a man with a plan and the skills to see it through. An 8/1 requires an aluminium piston unless the guys in Rajkot have worked out a way of lightening a cast iron piston significantly.

My original CS stock head had valve seats, despite this, after sixty years of use the valves seats were well out of specification and have had to go to the machinist to have new seats fitted. The cost for this work in Australia (with travel) is around $400. I can have a new cast iron head delivered to my door for less than $300, it will have no valve seat inserts but will probably last 5 years without any issues. Valve seats are really only required in high speed engines where the combustion temperatures and pressures get too high for cast iron. Get your engine up and running, then buy some spares like bearings/bushes, piston and rings and a spare cylinder and cylinder head. Have these blueprinted and pack them in grease before leaving them on the shelf, you are unlikely to need them for the next five years.

Start by stripping your engine down to it`s component parts, clean the crankcase and remove any sand and Bondo, grind out any casting inclusions and then fill them with JB weld (steel epoxy resin). Paint it inside and out, concentrate on sealing the inside with a crankcase varnish like Glyptal, there are cheaper alternatives that are just as good.

I`m with Bruce M about the quality of Indian camshafts, this is one area where the Indians let themselves down. The cam lobes are of good quality being hard and nicely ground, the trouble comes with how accurately the cam shaft has been drilled and taper reamed. They have the same issue with the very well ground cam lobes being badly drilled and taped reamed. A replacement injector pump cam lobe I purchased was 3 mm different from the original.

Anyway I will be trying to lay my concrete floor salab in a week or two and will keep you upto date.

Bob




gadget

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2019, 03:58:15 PM »
I just emailed Gary about the iron piston.

So is it bests to also completely strip the outside of the case of all paint bondo? How about the flywheels and other parts? I was thinking this would be the best route to go since I'm going to be cleaning out the inside anyway.

BruceM

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2019, 04:37:13 PM »
The outside of the case is irrelevant in my mind, but I've seen here that others process their crankcase via garbage can or drum filled with hot lye and it seems to do a good job. 

I'd skip stripping the wheels, myself.

We wish Rajkot would use Bondo.  What I've seen on the two engines I've gone over is a white chalky substance that seems like spackle. I'm not kidding. 

A large carbide burr works wonders on the cast iron, but is quite spendy.  My neighbors 8/1 crankcase had areas of sharp casting flash left inside on mold seams. The carbide burr cut like butter for shaping and smoothing around openings and such, stones were quite slow going but OK for smoothing.  I concur with the other poster that for low speed engines, porting is pointless for performance, but there is no harm in it so while cleaning up castings, why not clean up the gross obstructions and misalignment was my attitude.

I made hardwood Vee blocks for testing cam shaft runout on my cast iron table saw top with a dial gauge. Crude but effective.  Kudos to 38ac for addressing this so well, it was NOT a waste of time.




gadget

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2019, 04:27:15 AM »
The outside of the case is irrelevant in my mind, but I've seen here that others process their crankcase via garbage can or drum filled with hot lye and it seems to do a good job. 

I'd skip stripping the wheels, myself.

We wish Rajkot would use Bondo.  What I've seen on the two engines I've gone over is a white chalky substance that seems like spackle. I'm not kidding. 

A large carbide burr works wonders on the cast iron, but is quite spendy.  My neighbors 8/1 crankcase had areas of sharp casting flash left inside on mold seams. The carbide burr cut like butter for shaping and smoothing around openings and such, stones were quite slow going but OK for smoothing.  I concur with the other poster that for low speed engines, porting is pointless for performance, but there is no harm in it so while cleaning up castings, why not clean up the gross obstructions and misalignment was my attitude.

I made hardwood Vee blocks for testing cam shaft runout on my cast iron table saw top with a dial gauge. Crude but effective.  Kudos to 38ac for addressing this so well, it was NOT a waste of time.

Does the hot tanking with lye take off the outer paint? I've decide to remove all the paint. If I don't, it will drive me crazy everytime I look at it. I was thinking of soaking the outside with paint stripper before I hot tank it.

I have taken a burn to engine blocks before, mostly just on the casting seam. I will definitely go after the looser casting areas before hot tanking.

mikenash

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2019, 07:18:25 AM »
A stripped-clean engine casting is a thing of beauty in terms of its potential for however-good a finish you want.  Although you may find casting holes filled with chalk/putty - there's nothing to stop you filling them with something better, finishing the surfaces to however-much Bling you like, and painting to suit - knowing that the paint will stick properly

ajaffa1

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2019, 01:54:25 PM »
Hot tanking would be the way to go if you have the equipment, if not most paints can be readily removed with caustic soda, cheap and readily available in the cleaning department of most DIY stores. Please wear gloves, this stuff dissolves paint it does the same to skin, hair and fingernails. Do not use a natural fiber paintbrush to apply, it will also dissolve. Do not allow caustic soda near aluminium or brass components.

Once you have softened/loosened the paint with caustic soda hit the casing with a pressure washer, this should remove around 90% of the finish. I like to clean off the last remnants of paint with a rotary wire brush, these come in all types and sizes to fit electric drills and angle grinders. They are also great for removing any rust.

Once you have it clean, put a coat of primer on it immediately, I can not tell you how disappointing it is prep a casing for paint only to find that it has had condensation form on it over night and the whole thing is covered in surface rust.

Please don`t paint it pink! several years ago I was painting a crankcase and was running out of red oxide primmer, I had a tin of grey primmer and decided to mix the two together, I didn`t dare post the photos as I would probably have got thrown off the forum for being a dangerous extremist, a homosexual or a communist or some combination of all three.  :laugh:

Brunswick green is the original color for a Lister engine but I have seen them looking good in many other colors. One of my favorites was a guy who did his engine with black lead stove polish and linseed oil, it looked as scary as Darth Vader.

Let us know how you get on.

Bob




dax021

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2019, 08:11:31 PM »
Yes please, do it in pink.  I think it will look awesome, but only if it is that pink that they painted the old desert rat landrovers in.  I think they were called Prairies or something like that.

dax021

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2019, 08:16:31 PM »
removed duplicate post

gadget

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Re: After waiting 10 years, finally putting together an 8/1
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2019, 01:29:43 AM »


Please don`t paint it pink! several years ago I was painting a crankcase and was running out of red oxide primmer, I had a tin of grey primmer and decided to mix the two together, I didn`t dare post the photos as I would probably have got thrown off the forum for being a dangerous extremist, a homosexual or a communist or some combination of all three.  :laugh:

Bob


Reminds me of one of my favorite Cary Grant movies Operation Petticoat with the pink submarine. They had to mix gray and red primer and had to leave port before they could paint it gray. Great movie