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Author Topic: Tesla  (Read 1150 times)

BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2019, 07:55:34 PM »
AdeV's point on battery investment and research is a good one.  Capitalism is a mixed blessing but when there is big money to be made in a growing global market, capital is deployed and much effort will ensue.  Alas, more on incremental improvements than basic research, but still a great deal of effort.

Sure would be great if the US gov. would get it's head out of the sand and commit to being part of the solution. That would stimulate capital investment in US firms and help develop the technology we need.

Flow batteries have my interest for longer term storage.  The iron based flow batteries are particularly interesting to me for stationary applications in that the materials and "electrolyte" are common and not toxic. 






mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2019, 08:27:42 PM »
Re thermal energy in Rotorua

Last generation's houses there and nearby all had heat-exchanger loops going down into the thermal to heat houses, water etc

But over time the accumulated draw of them depleted the energy available to geysers etc in the tourist areas.  Tourism's our biggest single earner and, back then, Rotorua was a big part of it - so the individual heat-exchangers were banned

mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2019, 05:58:02 AM »
I donít have $100,000 - or even $1000 most days - but Iím willing to wager the traditional Box of Beer that Tesla will be (a) alive and (b) profitable in four years

LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2019, 07:23:47 AM »
Elon has already changed the world.  Electric transportation and rocket innovation will not be the same.  Let's not forget the Model S that started this thread had over 400,000 miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyZOLMeMYnI

The storage system I like is the stacked weights that are raised to store the energy and let down for recovery.
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mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2019, 09:32:59 AM »
Casey, the trouble with this is that it's like arguing with strangers on the internet over issues

(In fact . . . .)

That's because folks tend to have a viewpoint/prejudice/preconception to which they are attached and they're likely to dismiss evidence that doesn't support their viewpoint and embrace evidence that does (we're using "evidence" loosely here

Thus, say, our reactionary Australian colleague - should he watch your video - is quite likely mentally formulating a counter-argument even as the two bald gentlemen are speaking (in the same way in which when the Jehova's Witnesses come to your door, if you make the mistake of engaging them in conversation - as you are speaking, they're not actually listening to you, they're just thinking of what they're gonna say next)

Whereas my liberal (soft, commie, pinko, idealistic) Kiwi self already has a mindset that aligns with what those two blokes are saying and so I think they - and you - are making a lot of sense

The old jokes about this process resulting in heat rather than shedding light, or about how politicians use statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost (more for support than for illumination) apply here  IMHO

LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2019, 04:53:00 PM »
I can only lead our brothers and sisters to the water.  If they think it is for drinking or washing then how am I to convince them that redemption is only one splash away?

The challenge is to move the lamp post a few feet from where it was this morning.

I suspect that if we all saw a serious, for real pinko, commie, lefty that we pseudo progressives would be the most anxious.  One of my favorite friends could do a two part harmony with the conservative many so I had to grin whilst reading your dose of reality.  Hence my flirtation with heresy in the first paragraph.

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LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2019, 10:36:12 PM »
I told you I am a Tesla Fan Boy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGA5UsTLWt8
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mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 02:47:30 AM »
0 - 100 Ks in 1.9 seconds. Whatís not to enjoy

BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 04:44:57 AM »
I'm more interested in something much more modest and lightweight and with a range of 70 miles... if only I could manage a couple hours in one without getting wrecked.  It's about 26 miles to the nearest grocery store.  A bit over 30 miles to a decent one.

I'm interested in pancake motors; no rotating ferrous materials/magnets so by one ME's report, very low stray field.  I'm not familiar with the non-brushed pancake configuration yet.




veggie

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 04:51:34 PM »
I am a fan of electric vehicles and I like the idea of a centrally managed clean power plant (like natural gas).
Where I have issue is with most of the people I chat with think that the world atmospheric issues will quickly be solved if we were to switch to electric cars, wind turbines, and solar panels. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The massive amounts of raw materials needed to make an automobile do not change much between Internal Combustion and electric machines.
Engine components are replaced my semiconductors made in chip factories requiring exotic mined minerals and power hungry climate controlled robotics environments. Regardless of being EV or IC, billions of gallons of diesel and terrawatts of dirty electricity are used every year to mine the steel, run the factories, deliver the vehicles, make the tires,...etc..etc
Our current civilization is now built on long distance travel (even to get a pint of milk) and all the EV does is change a small part of the mode of travel.
The rest of the mega-infastructure remains and would take 100 years to reverse if there were sufficient collective and cooperative desire to reverse it.
The argument that EV's are a key step to controlling global warming does not hold water with me.
CO2 is only 4% of our total atmosphere and cannot possibly contribute enough to heat it up the way climate alarmists are claiming.
Secondly C02 has a logarithmic heat property where by doubling the amount of C02 only results in 1/2 the gain in greenhouse heating capability.
If doubling world C02 from 200 ppm to 400 ppm creates a rise of 1 deg C, then a another 1 deg C increase would take a doubling again from 400 ppm to 800 ppm. And 1 more degree would take a doubling from 800 ppm to 1600 ppm, and so on.
This is a known fact by the majority of climate scientists and it's beginning to create a huge rift between the alarmists and those who disagree that man made  C02 is causing the warming.
I apologize in advance for my C02 rant and I remain open to any friendly scientific debate on my current thinking.

Back to EV's...
It's just another form of transport that will do little to help the planet. HOWEVER...it may revitalize the auto industry ! Money, jobs, taxes.
And yes, as a "spanner head" I look forward to having a small electric car soon that I can charge with my Listeroid or my solar panels as well as the local grid which is natural gas powered.
But I don't think I will be helping the planet much. The biggest help would be to not buy another car at all... of any kind.
IMHO the bigger problems which need attention are ocean over fishing, waste chemical pollution, and mega factory animal farming.

Phew !
Sorry


« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 07:56:03 PM by veggie »
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veggie

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2019, 04:59:56 PM »
I'm more interested in something much more modest and lightweight and with a range of 70 miles... if only I could manage a couple hours in one without getting wrecked.  It's about 26 miles to the nearest grocery store.  A bit over 30 miles to a decent one.

I'm interested in pancake motors; no rotating ferrous materials/magnets so by one ME's report, very low stray field.  I'm not familiar with the non-brushed pancake configuration yet.

Re: Pancakes

I have always been intrigued by pancake generators and axial flux generators. I don't have the ability to build one into the flywheel of my Lister like this fellow did. But I do like the idea of it being integral to the engine with no belts and pulleys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyJYdHzwsy4
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

veggie

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2019, 07:31:12 PM »
I told you I am a Tesla Fan Boy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGA5UsTLWt8

Casey, help me out here...

No disrespect intended ...
These points about being able to play retro video games and connect to the web for software updates all seem like "fluff" to me.
... And 0 to 100 in 1.9 seconds should be a concerning issue to the ecologically minded.
To achieve that kind of acceleration with that weight of car takes around 450HP.
That's 450HP of electricity instantly drained from the battery which must now be charged (probably by a coal fired generating plant if you live in the US, or maybe Nuclear) earlier than it would if the car were limited to say 180HP.
So it's really no different that dropping a 400HP internal combustion engine into a new Ford Mustang and putting it on the market.

As I said earlier, I like EV's, I just don't see them as a solution to the real issues that face us.
What factor am I missing in the EV pardigm?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 07:56:47 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2019, 08:44:39 PM »
I can only agree that renewables are only a small part of the puzzle...and I wish we'd get back on where we left off around 1972 with the vastly safer, non-pressurized liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) at Oak Ridge.  It's a proven and highly efficient design that could use the waste from rare earth mining tailings, so no new mining would be needed for hundreds of years.  The amount of radioactive waste is also a tiny fraction of the fast breeder reactors, and it's nearly impossible to get bomb material from them. We are using the first successful design for nuclear submarines for our power plants 50 years later, and ignored all the safety warnings in our lust for nuclear weapons.  Pressurized water, fast breeder reactors are nuts for civilian use.

The notion that since CO2 is only 4% thus can't be the problem makes me think you benefit from reading more on the subject that is peer reviewed science.  There's this thing called the Dunning Kruger effect...







mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2019, 09:21:21 PM »
I'm more interested in something much more modest and lightweight and with a range of 70 miles... if only I could manage a couple hours in one without getting wrecked.  It's about 26 miles to the nearest grocery store.  A bit over 30 miles to a decent one.

I'm interested in pancake motors; no rotating ferrous materials/magnets so by one ME's report, very low stray field.  I'm not familiar with the non-brushed pancake configuration yet.

Re: Pancakes

I have always been intrigued by pancake generators and axial flux generators. I don't have the ability to build one into the flywheel of my Lister like this fellow did. But I do like the idea of it being integral to the engine with no belts and pulleys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyJYdHzwsy4

That is one smart, rich chap.  Look at all the beautiful Outback gear

Re the environment etc, democracy is its own worst enemy in that the fear of "losing the next election" is what drives politicians/decision makers (See Winston Churchill for options, sadly)

As a rural dweller who travels widely in our small country I have watched our primary dairy industry wreck big chunks of our environment while our "leaders" stood and applauded the contribution that industry makes to our economy.  Who can blame them?  Voters will throw them off the Treasury Benches if they do anything that threatens our standard of living

The poor old planet (IMHO) needs less people using/wasting less stuff.  The debate over what % of the solution RVs might be, or what contribution clean nuclear might make, or how much of the available water the Dairy Industry should be allowed to use - these (again IMHO) will all be sideshows until we as a species adopt a "stewardship" viewpoint rather than a "consumer" one

I wonder what the average age of the folks on this forum is?  And, even though we have diverse viewpoints, perhaps, as a group, we might be characterised as "thoughtful"?  But I doubt many of us are influential

Our children and grandchildren will have to deal with the mess we started somewhere in the consumer-driven growth after WW2 when the world seemed young & its bounties endless

glort

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2019, 12:46:38 AM »

It's just another form of transport that will do little to help the planet.

Careful Veggie,  You make a lot of sense there and the WORST thing you can do these days is tell the truth and point out facts that the snivelling  cowards that have to group together to lambaste others with a different Viewpoint won't like and sure as heck don't have the smarts to come up with other viewpoints themselves.  They think they are so smart and well informed but then repeatedly tell us they are lacking the intelligence and comprehension to read more than a few paragraphs of text! Typical.

Also makes me wonder why these people that are so fanatical about these things and champion the company, the product and the founder with such cult like worship, don't actually support the cause they champion by actually putting their money where their mouths are and OWNING one? Some hypocrites champion EV's and call those that don't support them names then at other times Champion old IC vehicles that the emission controls no doubt have stopped working years ago on. Hypocrisy at it's finest!
I'll bet there are a load of thin and transparent BS excuses though.  Do as I say, not as I do.  ::)


Quote
No disrespect intended ...
These points about being able to play retro video games and connect to the web for software updates all seem like "fluff" to me.

Seems downright Childish  to me! No doubt adds a danger factor in distraction as well.
I would be outright embarrassed to have a car that had these idiotic features! I saw a vid a while ago where you can get a tesla to play music and flash the lights and flap the doors. Yeah, real breakthrough save the world tech that is.  ::)
Gives a good insight into the IQ of people that would think a vehicle and the creators behind it were so wonderful to come up with BS like that and the mental maturity of their target market these things are aimed at.

Meanwhile while they are paying people to come up with this crap, they can't put reliable battery packs in the things and basic accident repairs or maintenance  which they DO require , is backed up for months. 

Your point with the speed of the things is also spot on. Before you can engage the high speed mode the battery pack has to be warmed up which of course wastes more energy.  It's also know that this places great stress on the motors and battery and is in fact recorded in the vehicle logs how many hard launches the thing has done . I believe there is a recommended limit as to how many times you are supposed to launch these things and warnings are triggered each time you do it and when you do it too much.

In reality it's Just more Hypocrisy from the virtue signalling Hypocrites that want to make out they are so concerned for the planet but then prove the complete opposite through their actions and beliefs.
Thankfully the mainstream of manufacturers have more sense and responsibility than to keep chasing down that road and are going for more sensible but adequate outputs and smaller motors and using the energy the vehicles have for range and practicality rather than an antidote for those with small penis - big ego syndrome.

You are not missing anything with EV's.  The only problem is you are seeing the big picture waay too clearly than most supporters would like.
I have said all along their greatest advantage is to be the greatest cash cow the auto industry has ever seen since it's creation and anyone that has their feet on the ground rather than their heads up their nether regions could see that.

Everyone wants a cleaner world but the difference is some see things as the farce and con job they are and others are stupid enough to swallow every bit of marketing hype they read and never look beyond that for the real truth of how worthwhile or not something actually is. There is a term for that self deception as well which is what those that use a noble cause to lie to people in the pursuit of profit rely on.

Here is an insight to the benifit to the world EVs will bring:



Yes, that is a DIESEL generator for recharging EV's.
I can only imagine the round trip efficency of going from chemical energy to mechanical energy to electrical energy, battery charging chemical energy losses and back to electromechanical energy again.
Brilliant idea!  ::)

Of course it was a LOT cheaper than their Idea of using solar. That was going to cost about $250K to set up and would be able to charge all of 2, yes, count them, 2 Teslas a day..... Given that the weather was fine and sunny or you could easily be down to 1 a week in crappy weather or 1 every few days in the winter fall off. But they always give you the best possible scenario not the far less impressive real world one.

Lets save the world and put these things all around so the EV brigade won't wet the bed with their range anxiety while they do so much saving the planet.