Author Topic: Lister must do's when first taken home  (Read 20006 times)

t19

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Lister must do's when first taken home
« on: August 04, 2006, 08:03:29 PM »
Ok I am going to clean my SOM, repaint it, and then get her ready to start.

Question - Oil - what kind is best?  I take it a Diesel reated oild with no detergent is what I should get.

Question - Lube - what do you guys use for lub, anything in particular?

PArts. I have a damaged hot water outlet.  It needs to be replaced.  What's a good source for these?

I remember somome saying they got thier muffler and pipes from speedy muffler, used a Sentra muffler.  Were they able to mate up to the exhaust value ok?

I will be taking some pictures and posting them here, I have a lot of extra gear on mine that looks like it was part of the autostart system
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

GuyFawkes

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2006, 08:14:34 PM »
Oil, non detergent mono weight, depends on your climate if you go for a 30 or 40 weight

lube, see oil

water outlet, BSP pipe
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Andre Blanchard

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2006, 08:30:33 PM »
Oil, non detergent mono weight, depends on your climate if you go for a 30 or 40 weight

lube, see oil

water outlet, BSP pipe

http://www.mcmaster.com/
Paqe 42  part number  4778K197 1 1/4 BSPT to NPT adaptor nipples.  Other sizes there also.


But maybe in Canada they have BSP fittings at the hardware stores?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 08:34:13 PM by Andre Blanchard »
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Andre' B

t19

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 11:49:18 PM »
Oil, non detergent mono weight, depends on your climate if you go for a 30 or 40 weight

lube, see oil

water outlet, BSP pipe

Got Diesel Oil, non detergent 30 weight

Lube OK

What about grease for the grease nipples on the cups and on the genhead, is there a particular type I should use?  I take it synthetic oils are all wrong :)

Anyone in Canada have a source?  Princess Auto does not have them, I'm going to check out NAPA next week.

Well spent the day cleaning the old girl up.  The top 1/2 is now clean, and oiled.  Now to work on the bottom 1/2 and clean the wheels, and base.  Then on to the fuel system, clean up the sump and put some new oil in her and get her ready for the big day.

Guy, I've printed out your steps and will follow them.  Looking for a muffler and a rad next. Then Start me up!!!

Then I'll tart her up.... already have had 5 villagers stop by to take a look :)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 03:35:02 AM by t19 »
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

Doug

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2006, 12:14:03 AM »
I still think an auto luber ( the electro chemical kind ) set to minimum injection ( some will pump 8 ounce in 2 years ) would be a wise investment. A runny EP 1 Moly, rub the excess into anything that might like a little lube

I like the EP1 mollys becasue they are soft and run you can need to grease a littel more often but thats not a bad thing especialy in a dirty area.

Grease is actualy oil in a binder. Grease bleeds oil the binder holds the lubricant in place kind of like a runny sponge. Once the oil is gone often you need to purge the old binder out, such is the case with bearings in the ST heads with open bearings. I like a purge port on the bottom of an open bearing housing with an EP 2. @Z bearings I prefer an EP 1, no outer purge port, but rather clean out the inner bearing caps and scrap the bearings every 5000 hours or so depending on use.

Grease has a shelf life. Open tubes of grease bleed out leaving you with a thick binder and less oil than intended. Some of the oils used can oxidise in very old grease. Different greases use different binders like Lythium and other metals, types clay, synthetic binders ect. Then you have aditives like engine oils, zinc, presevatives ( in the past animal and veg oils were also used sperm whale oil was considered a good additive)....

Oils used in grease have their viscosity rated in SUS numbers not SAE this cab be confusing

True Soap greases are interesting, these ( not used in anything modern, not even a Lister ). A thick soap binder hold an oil in a thick brick ( realy thick stuff like hard butter Shell Obra is an example ) and the oil is released by a combination of moving metal and running water threw the bearing.

Grease is cool and complex stuff, often taken for granted and miss used.

Doug

t19

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2006, 01:20:04 AM »
just took the cover off and lloked inside.  There was oil everywhere!!!  I took pictures, later tonight I will if I have time update my web site.  I looked up at the cylinder walls and they looked good, no rust or anything.

Drained the oil.  Thick bits came out, pretty gross!!  Don't think i'll use this as part of my fuel LOL

Don't know for sure, but the oil looked pretty old, but so far everything has looked good.  The splash lube seems to work.  Going to clean teh oil filter next, and once back in, I am going to prime the oil pump as per the manual and see if I can see the pump working.  Damn so far its hot, humid but exciting stuff.
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hotater

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2006, 02:32:35 PM »
T-19---

To further the body of knowledge on these engines could you check the oil dipper and see if it's solid or hollow and what thread it has?

If you're going to take off the auto start components around the throttle and valve lifter I'd be a buyer for whatever linkages and parts you're not going to use.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

bat outta hell

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2006, 03:52:45 PM »
hotater

Why not rethread the bottom cap to american threads.

hotater

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2006, 04:00:07 PM »
 Easy for me to do, but the object is to get the 'standard' so a bunch of aftermarket dippers can be made for those that can't.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

t19

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2006, 08:50:22 PM »
T-19---

To further the body of knowledge on these engines could you check the oil dipper and see if it's solid or hollow and what thread it has?

If you're going to take off the auto start components around the throttle and valve lifter I'd be a buyer for whatever linkages and parts you're not going to use.
Weill do as soon as I get well enough to do so, might be next weekend before I get back to her as I'm dead beat
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

listeroil

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2006, 01:02:15 AM »
re con rod dippers. The thread on the 6-1 and 8-1 Lister engines is 5/16 BSF(British standard fine). I do not know what thread is on the twin cylinder engines. The con rod part number is different for the twin cylinder engines acording to my 1975 Lister parts list. The 1983 Lister 8-1 & 16-2 engine manual says this about con rod dippers.

The dipper fitted to the 8-1 & 6-1 engines is flattened in section and should cut the oil edgeways and NOT broardside on.The hollow dipper in the twin cylinder engines is a scoop, the opening of which is turned away from the crankcase door. The  big end bearings are lubricated from below by a hollow dipper in the twin cylinder engines, and by oil holes from above in the 6-1 & 8-1 engines.

Mick

dkwflight

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2006, 01:20:38 AM »
Hi I don't understand this unless the intent is to splash the oil in a particular direction in stead of scooping the oil into the dipper and force it into the bottom shell.
I haven't pulled a bottom cap from my engine to see.
BTW one of the rods in my engine is stamped with a "5". I wonder what engine it was intended for?
Dennis
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Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

gpkull

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2006, 01:44:43 AM »
listeroil my 24/2 has no scoop i understand the not knife edge. there would be little efect. the straight on worst case sen. would be foaming of the oil as i see it. is the in between the two to avoid either and promote circulation?  i turn 1000 rpm had no mark on the dip stick and was advised to fill it to the bottom of the con rod nut. yes the breather omits some cc oil . do have a pump but no filter {YET}   power anand #50355 and proud to have one. they are flat blade only THE DIPPERS that is. you think this slinger really needs scoops?

listeroil

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2006, 12:25:29 AM »
I only have experiance with single cylinder engines and have never even seen a twin cylinder engine. I do not know about Indian engines, it seems like they made a few modifications from the Lister design. It probably depends what type of con rod you have.  All the con rods I have seen 7 in total have solid dippers, 5 of them flattened with a knife edge on both edges and they cut the oil edgeways. The other 2 dippers one was flattened and cut the oil broardside and didn't seem to use any more oil than my other engine. The last one was a 5/16 BSF set screw cut down to length and i've never seen that engine run. All the con rods have 2 holes above the big end bearings.
My only information about twins is out of the Lister manuals that are years old so I am not in a position to comment about them from first hand experiance. however I do think you will be fine with the solid dipper because my one which cuts the oil sideways throws so much oil around that everything gets lots of oil.
As far as can understand the manual about the scoop dippers is that it faces away from the crankcase door ie opposite and as such would force the oil into the big end bearing.

All the best Mick 

listerdiesel

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Re: Lister must do's when first taken home
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2006, 09:07:05 PM »
The 10/2 and 12/2 engines are basically two single barrels and heads on a bigger crankcase and with a 180 degree crankshaft. I have a complete engine in pieces if anyone needs any info on what is inside. The camshaft runs full width across the block and is gear driven the same as the singles with the same lube point at the non-driven end under the hex head plug 'Oil Daily' or whatever.

There is a centre crankshaft bearing with split shells, a plunger pump running off the camshaft at the front of the engine which feeds oil through 5 copper pipes into the bearings etc. Big-ends are scoop/splash lubricated.

Most of the injection parts are common, and the blocks, rods, pistons and heads are the same as the single cylinder engines of the same power. Note that the 3/1 engines are totally different from the crankcase upwards, very few parts are common but the bottom end is pure 5/1 or 6/1.

Oil has to be a Detergent type for any diesel, I don't know where this non-detergent oil idea comes from, but you'll soon have problems if you don't use the correct stuff. This goes back years, almost to the 1930's and it hasn't changed since!

Read any of the genuine Lister handbooks, they will always quote detergent oil. Synthetic oils are not required, and even thick oils are not always necessary, but detergent it has to be.

If you need information on 'why', look up one of the oil company technical sites which will tell you about holding dirt in suspension rather than allowing it to form deposits around the engine etc etc

Contact me if you need any further info on te twin cylinder (10/2 12/2) Listers, I can always pop out and take some pictures of the parts if need be.

Listerdiesel