Author Topic: New Listeroids for sale  (Read 3359 times)

glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2019, 02:38:36 AM »


Diesels last a long long time. A listeroid is an over designed extremely low stress e.g. yield, engine. 

It would not surprise me at all to see a well maintained listeroid chugging away at 50,000 hours.

Mate I don't know if you have done any reading here or just come to push your business interests but you are talking to people who pretty much at a Minimum, have a decade of experience with these things on their own, and probably several centuries combined. You are talking to many people whom in some cases have torn down, modified and rebuilt dozens of these things. And you are trying to tell them you know better after playing with a couple for a couple of years.  I'm sure you can see the credabiolity problem there.

If you go back through the loads of info here again going back over 10 years, you will see people well understand these things and their abilities and limitations. Unless you have re invented the wheel, there is nothing to say your engines are any different or better than the ones people have been playing with  for a VERY long time.

Describing what is well known and making predictions that in no way add up to the hands on experience so many people have with these engines in all their different sizes and flavours, is not going to convince anyone nor change their minds. 
From what I can tell, you have a few years experience playing with these things but you are trying to tell people whom have relied on them daily for years and torn loads of them apart, that what they know is wrong.

From what I can see, the sum total of your experience with these engines is you have been testing a couple ( or was it just one actually used) for a couple of years. That means absolutely nothing. I have had one of these things about 10 years but there would be a bunch of people here that would run theirs more in a month or two than mine has done in it's life.  Exactly how many hours has this test engine of yours done?  I know for a fact the engine I have is a complete and utter piece of garbage with every known fault these things have but it's probably done a couple of hundred hours and runs fine too.  How it runs at 500 hours and beyond I expect would be a very different thing.

Are you even aware of the common problems with these engines and what specifically have you done to address them? If you listed those you would have a lot more traction in trying to convince people the engines you are selling will be different and more reliable.

Sorry, but what would or wouldn't surprise you or what you think is really insignificant to the decades of hands on experience people here have with these engines and the information they have shared which pretty much all flys in the face of your own. Which to be honest, is nothing more than sales Hype rather than anything remotely technical or detailed .
You have actually posted ZERO information or details that would change anyone's mind that you have overcome the mountains of documented problems these engines can have due to the terrible manufacturing practices and non existent quality control from where you are sourcing them that is the same place everyone else has.
Have you even been to any of the factories and seen and spoken to those making them first hand or has this all been organised through emails?

Did you tear either of these engines down you tested at any point and check them to be in spec and assembled correctly or did you just take the assurances of the person you bought them off because they said the right things you wanted to believe? Without a teardown and measurement, you are kidding yourself far more than anyone else.  I see nothing so far that suggests that you have done anything but run them.... for unknown hours with an unknown load. 

I understand you are trying to push these things and have a financial vested interest in them and therefore want to show them in the best light. Unfortunately You are completely and utterly out of your depth here with the experience and knowledge many have ( and I'm NOT talking about myself)  but as disagreeable as some here can be, their opinions formed over many years and with at least 10's of engines will always be what I and pretty much everyone else goes with, especially as it completely agrees with my own limited experience. It will take a LOT for you or anyone else to come near the respect and believability people here hold that have already commented here.


You may be better off spending your time trying to push your beliefs of these things to less experienced people else where because I really don't think you are going to do much good trying to sell your Yellow snow to this Village of Eskimos.
Where you might get better returns for your efforts is to look at importing spare parts. These are always in demand ( despite the engines running 50K hours) and there would be I believe a better and more profitable market for them.... If you can compete with the other established people doing it in the limited market that exists.

Unless you can PROVE different, what you have is the same engines everyone else has. That's OK though. Just don't try to over hype them and tell people they are something they are not and that's good enough. The engines are well known to this audience, just make the things affordable and available and you are there. Plenty of people will buy them for what they are with all their faults and problems IF they can get them at a reasonable price. You'd do a lot better to be honest and say these things typically need work to get them right than try and tell them you think they should last 50K hours when I myself have yet to see anyone with EXPERIENCE claim that yet.
Just get the things into the US at a reasonable price and 90% of the work will be done then and there.

As one sales person to another, You are going to have to hit this audience with a lot of hard and documented facts to win them over that you have a better mousetrap and change their minds. Talk alone is not going to come near doing it. 



Bolton Power Equipment

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2019, 06:12:22 PM »


Diesels last a long long time. A listeroid is an over designed extremely low stress e.g. yield, engine. 

It would not surprise me at all to see a well maintained listeroid chugging away at 50,000 hours.

Mate I don't know if you have done any reading here or just come to push your business interests but you are talking to people who pretty much at a Minimum, have a decade of experience with these things on their own, and probably several centuries combined. You are talking to many people whom in some cases have torn down, modified and rebuilt dozens of these things. And you are trying to tell them you know better after playing with a couple for a couple of years.  I'm sure you can see the credabiolity problem there.

If you go back through the loads of info here again going back over 10 years, you will see people well understand these things and their abilities and limitations. Unless you have re invented the wheel, there is nothing to say your engines are any different or better than the ones people have been playing with  for a VERY long time.

Describing what is well known and making predictions that in no way add up to the hands on experience so many people have with these engines in all their different sizes and flavours, is not going to convince anyone nor change their minds. 
From what I can tell, you have a few years experience playing with these things but you are trying to tell people whom have relied on them daily for years and torn loads of them apart, that what they know is wrong.

From what I can see, the sum total of your experience with these engines is you have been testing a couple ( or was it just one actually used) for a couple of years. That means absolutely nothing. I have had one of these things about 10 years but there would be a bunch of people here that would run theirs more in a month or two than mine has done in it's life.  Exactly how many hours has this test engine of yours done?  I know for a fact the engine I have is a complete and utter piece of garbage with every known fault these things have but it's probably done a couple of hundred hours and runs fine too.  How it runs at 500 hours and beyond I expect would be a very different thing.

Are you even aware of the common problems with these engines and what specifically have you done to address them? If you listed those you would have a lot more traction in trying to convince people the engines you are selling will be different and more reliable.

Sorry, but what would or wouldn't surprise you or what you think is really insignificant to the decades of hands on experience people here have with these engines and the information they have shared which pretty much all flys in the face of your own. Which to be honest, is nothing more than sales Hype rather than anything remotely technical or detailed .
You have actually posted ZERO information or details that would change anyone's mind that you have overcome the mountains of documented problems these engines can have due to the terrible manufacturing practices and non existent quality control from where you are sourcing them that is the same place everyone else has.
Have you even been to any of the factories and seen and spoken to those making them first hand or has this all been organised through emails?

Did you tear either of these engines down you tested at any point and check them to be in spec and assembled correctly or did you just take the assurances of the person you bought them off because they said the right things you wanted to believe? Without a teardown and measurement, you are kidding yourself far more than anyone else.  I see nothing so far that suggests that you have done anything but run them.... for unknown hours with an unknown load. 

I understand you are trying to push these things and have a financial vested interest in them and therefore want to show them in the best light. Unfortunately You are completely and utterly out of your depth here with the experience and knowledge many have ( and I'm NOT talking about myself)  but as disagreeable as some here can be, their opinions formed over many years and with at least 10's of engines will always be what I and pretty much everyone else goes with, especially as it completely agrees with my own limited experience. It will take a LOT for you or anyone else to come near the respect and believability people here hold that have already commented here.


You may be better off spending your time trying to push your beliefs of these things to less experienced people else where because I really don't think you are going to do much good trying to sell your Yellow snow to this Village of Eskimos.
Where you might get better returns for your efforts is to look at importing spare parts. These are always in demand ( despite the engines running 50K hours) and there would be I believe a better and more profitable market for them.... If you can compete with the other established people doing it in the limited market that exists.

Unless you can PROVE different, what you have is the same engines everyone else has. That's OK though. Just don't try to over hype them and tell people they are something they are not and that's good enough. The engines are well known to this audience, just make the things affordable and available and you are there. Plenty of people will buy them for what they are with all their faults and problems IF they can get them at a reasonable price. You'd do a lot better to be honest and say these things typically need work to get them right than try and tell them you think they should last 50K hours when I myself have yet to see anyone with EXPERIENCE claim that yet.
Just get the things into the US at a reasonable price and 90% of the work will be done then and there.

As one sales person to another, You are going to have to hit this audience with a lot of hard and documented facts to win them over that you have a better mousetrap and change their minds. Talk alone is not going to come near doing it.


I guess you're right, what could I possibly know about diesel engines from the 3rd world? I only imported them for 20 years. 300-400 tractors and maybe twice that in small engines for generators and pumps. Been to the factories frequently and talked to the product managers and engineers. But how could I understand what they were talking about, I only got both my engineering degrees 40 years ago? Diesel engines from India don't use the same physics, chemistry or metallurgy as diesel engines from China so how could I compare them? So I wondered where you earned your engineering degrees, how many diesel engines you have imported and how many years you have been in business?? Curious.

glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2019, 11:45:17 PM »

I guess you're right, what could I possibly know about diesel engines from the 3rd world? I only imported them for 20 years. 300-400 tractors and maybe twice that in small engines for generators and pumps. Been to the factories frequently and talked to the product managers and engineers. But how could I understand what they were talking about, I only got both my engineering degrees 40 years ago? Diesel engines from India don't use the same physics, chemistry or metallurgy as diesel engines from China so how could I compare them? So I wondered where you earned your engineering degrees, how many diesel engines you have imported and how many years you have been in business?? Curious.

What  a very business like and professional reply.  ::)
If anyone had any doubts about your credibility, I'm sure you have cleared them up now and left no doubts in their mind.

You may not have liked what I said but you would also not be able to refute any of it either.

BTW, I have no skills of any kind, never worked on a thing mechanical in my life and certainly have no engineering qualifications.  I couldn't even Change a Lightbulb.  No doubt that admission will make you feel Vindicated and that your re direction was successful.

Thing is though, I'm not here trying to reassure everyone of the quality of a product I'm trying to sell to them or rely on it as part of my income.    :laugh:

mike90045

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2019, 06:34:22 AM »
......
.....
Thing is though, I'm not here trying to reassure everyone of the quality of a product I'm trying to sell to them or rely on it as part of my income.    :laugh:

Many members  of this forum (myself included) have found, consistently, major screwups with imported indian engines from several vendors.   We'd all like the holy grail of a robust, slow speed diesel, without misaligned cam lobes, and parts having been properly fitted with a small hammer, instead of a 15# sledge.   So, sadly, great skepticism (along with great interest) has accompanied your announcements.

glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2019, 09:09:23 AM »
So, sadly, great skepticism (along with great interest) has accompanied your announcements.

Given the MANY people on this and other forums and the well documented problems these engines do have, I think it's more than a bit rich for someone to come along declaring they have the perfect mousetrap based on their experience of unknown " testing" of 1 or 2 engines. We still don't know what that testing involved and if it was done over 100 hours or 10,000 hours.  We are just being given a lot of slick sales talk that these engines are better than any other have ever been.


I have seen this many times before on forums. Someone comes along trying to sell something, making big claims with nothing to back it up then gets all pissy when people question their highly suspect and unproven claims.
The next rebuttal  will be along the lines of well I'm taking my bat and ball and going home and you are all going to miss out now on my great product which you'll all be sorry for.

Always the same with these people that only come on a forum to post about the one thing of their self financial interest.

ajaffa1

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2019, 01:09:06 PM »
I suspect, once again, that the problems with modern manufacturing comes down to accountants and other money men. They are all involved in the business of making money, rather than the business of making the best, most reliable/efficient equipment possible. They will cut corners at every opportunity and ignore quality control issues to maintain cash flow.

There is only one way to build an engine that will last: build every component to the specifications, have very skilled and well paid personnel to assemble it and do it in an environment that ensures total cleanliness during assembly.Then have it checked/inspected by a good quality control team, any failures at this stage get traced back to the assemblers and manufacturers with consequences.

I believe that changing our laws from 1 year warranty to five year warranty would have an enormous impact on how well built these machines would be, it would also help enormously if replacement parts were all to the same original specification and also came with a five year warranty.

It is heart breaking to see unskilled young people buying small engined equipment and then putting it out for the council to take and dump in landfill a year later because it is cheaper to replace it than try to repair it!

If you want our trust and support you need to back up your claims with hard evidence of quality manufacturing, cleanliness and longevity/reliability testing.

Bob

BruceM

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2019, 07:55:10 PM »
Research done by XYZer (Dave) about 10 years ago showed that Rajkot was consistently mislocating the idler bolt location relative to the original CS design such that there was huge lash between it and the crank gear and cam gear. This was the cause of a fair number of idler gear failures.  The problem was that not only was it consistently wrong, it was not held to any tolerance so that Dave had to offer offset idlers made in a wide range of offsets up to 0.055" (the one I needed) in order to solve the problem for so many of us. He is and was a hero to many of us.

This is only one example of many tolerance and quality issues that are common, such as bent camshafts, misplaced cam lobes, casting defects of all sorts, and shoddy machining with dull tools.  I haven't seen anything posted that suggests Bolton is fully aware of these many Rajkot quality issues and has addressed them. Testing a few samples by running them (?!) means little, and this is hardly a demonstration of engineering prowess and instead shows an utter lack of knowledge of production engineering.  Rajkot is NOT China.

You can't just sprinkle marketing pixie dust on Rajkot product and call it a 50K Hour engine ready to run.  That won't fly on this forum.



glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2019, 01:13:57 AM »

There is only one way to build an engine that will last: build every component to the specifications, have very skilled and well paid personnel to assemble it and do it in an environment that ensures total cleanliness during assembly.
ed along with the other attributes you describe that could and have built many engines to better than factory standards.  Their work is well known, their contribution here and else where is enormous, certainly If I was in the US and wanted and engine I Knew I could rely on, then I'd simply pay the bucks and know I had the best guarantee possible that I had an engine as good as I was going to get.
I think it in fact insulting and discourteous to come here trying to sell things over what other long term members offer and have provided years of help and expert knowledge to others out of the goodness of their hearts and little else.

Being in Oz and not able to avail oneself of their services, should I need such expertise in engine building services, I'd be making a trip up north to see you Bob!  :0)

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I believe that changing our laws from 1 year warranty to five year warranty would have an enormous impact on how well built these machines would be, it would also help enormously if replacement parts were all to the same original specification and also came with a five year warranty.

I was Cutting a Channel in concrete Yesterday and my angle Grinder erupted in flames. Most annoying and the thing was only about 20+ years old!!  >:(   :laugh:
I went to the hardware and bought a new one and a Circ saw when I was there.  I got Ryobi which isn't the best but I have my reasons well aside from price that make it or Makita what I will always buy.  I did compare the Makita which was a lot more but frankly could not see or feel any difference and they were both made in China anyway.  When I got them Home, I was surprised to see they had 4 year warranty. I thought that was pretty impressive for a lower end power tool. My last grinder was Ryobi and that got a pretty good thrashing and in Hindsight was probably going a bit hard with it when it did cremate itself.  Maybe they would last 3 days on a building site but I'm not a builder, just a backyard hacker and with a 4 Yr warranty and the for the price, seems decent enough value to me.

My father has bought a lot of AEG which has a 6 year warranty but that is double plus the price so to be expected.  I was also looking at a Kia Car review the other night and surprised to see in the states at least, comes with a 10 Yr warranty. I'm sure there is some fine print in there and it may be marketing Hype, Haven't delved it to look but on the face of it, seems pretty good.

It should also be remembered that a 1 Yr warranty is an arbitrary thing.  My father bought a TV couple of years ago, a Sony For $3000. At the 14-16? Month mark, it developed a line right across the screen.  Went back to the store told them and while the young guy initially tried to tell me it was out of warranty, Pointing out we both knew that was bullshit and did they want to play it the easy way or the hard way,  they pulled their head in and the result was a New TV.  The law here in oz states that something must have a reasonable life expectancy for the price.  That can be dubious but the test of would one expect a $3000 TV to last more than even 2 years is pretty easy. Had it been an Aldi $199 Job, may have been well different.

At Bunnings last Night I was also surprised when talking to the chatty Girl on the door about the recent frosts round here that they have a 12 Month " Warranty" on plants.  If the thing keels over, you can take it back for another one.  That would have to be the most dangerous warranty I ever heard of!
I did loose a $40 fruit tree last year very quickly obviously to frost but I would put that down to my fault in bad location rather than it be a product fault as such.

As I pointed out to the girl, Whenever I go there,I always go have a look at the " Reject" Plant trolley where they put the not so flash ones.  They are always well marked down and I can't remember any of the many I have bought off that which didn't buck up and do real well once we got them home.
I put that down to my horse manure/ wood shavings/ straw blended potting mix and the rabbit dropping stew made with Bog water.  Would put shoots on a billiard ball.   :laugh:

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It is heart breaking to see unskilled young people buying small engined equipment and then putting it out for the council to take and dump in landfill a year later because it is cheaper to replace it than try to repair it!

Dunno about young people, I think it's a case of so many people!
Mate of mine last year got me to change his pool and solar pumps after getting a stupid  quote.  Lets face it, it's a bit of PVC gluing in the new pumps, it isn't rocket surgery. Mate is facinated there is never 1 Drop of water in the pump house. Don't know why he was expecting otherwise bat apparently the other pumps ALWAYS leaked.

While I was there he pointed out he was also up for a new mower as the old one was acting up and  they wanted more to fix it than it was worth.
It looked ok other than the obvious and common problem so I said you want me to fix that too? I said I think it will come in under $50.  He said fine.

$37  worth of parts later including new blades and an air filter, replaced the cracked Primer bulb and about 10 Min work and it was running perfect. Mate was stunned that was all it took and was done while he stood there talking to me wondering when the work was going to start.  I know the repair places have to make their money on labour but $300.... Come on.  He's good at his job but not too hands on so is at the mercy of these repairers.

Over the years I have been amazed at what I have kicked up on the side of the road or even in the old days at the tip.
I remember a mower I picked up that without looking at too much I took the engine off it and started to tear into it to rebuild it before discovering the thing looked like it hadn't done an hours work since it was rebuilt.  I put it back together, added the missing spark plug and the fuel cap and used the thing for several years in the mowing business I then had.  Many more things I have picked up were fine too including my beloved Expensive battery charger. Found it sitting in a skip bin, took it home and to my surprise there was nothing wrong with the thing.

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If you want our trust and support you need to back up your claims with hard evidence of quality manufacturing, cleanliness and longevity/reliability testing.

I does amuse me that people come to forums full of enthusiasts with collective endless experience and knowledge and then try to lecture them as if they have as little knowledge and experience as themselves in the hopes they will just take their doubtful word for something.
For people whom claim to have so much business experience, one would think supporting evidence to back their claims would be an obvious and first thing they would do. That and some basic homework of the market they were approaching.

glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2019, 01:15:19 AM »

 I haven't seen anything posted that suggests Bolton is fully aware of these many Rajkot quality issues and has addressed them. Testing a few samples by running them (?!) means little, and this is hardly a demonstration of engineering prowess and instead shows an utter lack of knowledge of production engineering.  Rajkot is NOT China.

You can't just sprinkle marketing pixie dust on Rajkot product and call it a 50K Hour engine ready to run.  That won't fly on this forum.

Well said Bruce.

veggie

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2019, 02:07:00 AM »
"So I wondered where you earned your engineering degrees, how many diesel engines you have imported and how many years you have been in business?? Curious."

I have imported a lot of Chinese and Indian engines but that does not make me an expert on engines.
Owning a business does not mean that one can make an Indian engine into something that it's not.
An engineering degree should help one understand the limitations of reaching 50,000 hours on a non-precision engine built from average metallurgy and inconsistent clearances in critical places.

Some of the people on this forum have had extensive experience dealing directly with Rajkot companies. People like Mike Montieth have flown there and discussed quality issues with them. But the story always ends the same way. They promise the moon and deliver much much less.
Most of their antiquated machinery cannot hold tolerances that are needed for consistent quality. Castings are consistent poor quality and a lot of filler paint is used to hide defects.
Many components are still hand drilled, hand tapped, or pounded from tin by hand.
I have had firsthand experience and many such discussions with them only to be disappointed time an again.
In my opinion the only way one would stand a hope of delivering consistent quality is to station a quality control person at the factory and accept/reject  the components and clearances as the engines are built. That is how larger corporations deal with many Asian manufacturers.
Only my humble opinion of course.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 02:21:20 PM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

Johndoh

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2019, 02:06:32 PM »
My 2/- worth. I have been reading reams of information about Listeroids  Modern things made in modern factories have a limited use life and some €1500.00 phones have built in obsolescence what chance has an item made from recycled scrap by peasants  in a shed got of lasting 10, 20 even 60+ years? It has to be zilch.
I think if you want an old engine you either buy a good running old engine or buy and restore an old engine using genuine parts, spending lavishly as you go. I know there's guys than can buy a Listeroid pull it apart and  fix all that's wrong with it. These guys have experience often have a well equipped workshop and time. The average bloke wanting cheap reliable power can basically forget it with one of these things.
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

hwew

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2019, 09:05:40 PM »
Oh boy ::), The Billion Dollar questions are, have the tooling been revamped in the factory?

CNC yet?

Castings,  ASTM grade? Are they still using filler on castings such as blocks, flywheels and cylinder jackets?

Fasteners, Did they get away from whitworth fasteners? If not time to update.

Metrology, (QA) CNN yet? Are all incoming parts and parts made in-house inspected? Magiflux cranks, rods, pistons, flywheels? How do they handle parts that are not in spec. What course of action is taken with venders? Are scar reports written up?

Rockwell?

ISO 9001?

I can continue.

The bottom line is we seen lots of junk coming out of India. We seen the work conditions in the factories. For what these engines are priced at the quality should be up to par with Kubota, Perkins and others. I would not pay that amount unless there have been big changes with manufacturing and Having real quality control standards set up and met. Also, the manufacturer should warranty their products. Real warranty like Kubota and others.

Otherwise it’s best to stick with Kubota, and other manufacturers that are Putting out quality products. Even Changfa’s quality years ago is better than what we seen on the Listeroids coming out of India.

Here is a thought, if someone can start a network to find Real used CS Lister engines and remanufacture them there might be a decent market if cost can be kept reasonable. They can go through customs legally. It would be an honest way to sell them in the US and other countries. I feel members here would feel comfortable purchasing a reman with a warranty at a fair price.

Henry
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 02:36:25 AM by hwew »

Bolton Power Equipment

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2019, 03:51:04 AM »
Guys, let me say this again because it seems most of you missed it the first time. I didn't say I have the perfect mousetrap or a secret sauce to make the perfect listeriod. I said I've seen this movie before in China and I know how it ends. One of you said "China is not Rajkot". Well no it isn't, today. But it was 25 years ago when I started looking at Chinese tractors. I visited the factory and they were all hand made by dudes squatting on a dirt floor with hand tools next to a wooden cart with hand made parts on it in a room with no doors, sort of like a Chinese public bathroom, but thats another story. We had all the same issues with boring tool run out, milling tool chatter, misaligned holes, missing process steps, you name it. One importer called RHINO out in California just brought in containers and had so many problems it ultimately finished the company. I asked the product manager in China if the RHINO people had ever visited the factory and he said "no". So I went over there a number of times and looked at what they could do and what they couldn't do well. I didn't buy certain accessories from China, I had them made here in the US or Canada until they could make them well enough, some they never did. In one case we had milling facing problems causing leaks so I asked them to double up on the gasket. I also bought enough tractors to have their attention when I came to visit. Bottom line I fine tuned what I had. Listeriods are the same. Many of you are talking about how they don't have tight tolerances. They don't, but they don't need them. You can get 10 Hp at 7,000 rpms out of a 5 lb aluminum chainsaw motor, but it better be C&C designed and patterned along with very good materials QC or it won't last very long. But a listeriod weighs 1,000 lbs and turns at 1,000 rpm max. A few thousands off on the bore isn't going to matter and you don't need to magnaflux a 50 lb. 10Hp crankshaft that turns at 1,000 rpms. With a 400 HP engine it might be a good idea. With a 500 lb. 10HP crankcase you don't need ASTM grade cast iron either. That engine is so over designed it will be running long after the chain saw motor is shrapnel. The Chinese solved those issues much the same way by over designing the product. I've spent a few years testing these things and what I see is exactly what I expected. An over-designed 100 year old design that stills works for a reason. If Indians are one thing they are smart business people. I will buy volume as long as they give me what they can, not what they can't. Same offer I made the Chinese and I never had quality problems. Rhino did, I didn't, same factory group. The Chinese today have come a long way with manufacturing but 25 years ago it was Rajkot today. I will deal with the manufacturer the same way and get a consistent and acceptable product. I've already decided on buying some parts here, just like I did with the tractors. No magic, just knowing what you have.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 03:54:24 AM by Bolton Power Equipment »

glort

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2019, 05:36:46 AM »

Thank you for explaining that again to those of us that missed it the first time.

I now understand the reason you think your engines will last 50K hours and be superior not having the problems other people encountered with these engines and manufacturers is because you told the smart Indian Business men that if they sold you good engines, you'd buy more.

I'm sure that promise of future orders of what?  5-10 machines at a time,  changed the outlook of every worker in the factory and inspired them to all take a level of pride and care in assembling these engines like they have never done or even know how to do, like ever before.  No doubt the managers and owners of the plants will also be encouraging their workers to slow down and take their time to ensure every one of the engines they build for you prioritises quality over the usual Quantity targets they push for. 

If there is one thing your comments have proven far beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind, it's the Vindication of Bruce's statement that you haven't got a clue about the quality issues of these engines nor done a thing to address them.

mikenash

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2019, 07:10:04 AM »
Actually, Mr Bolton, there's a bunch of folks here who wish you well; who would be pleased to see a quality entrant into the market if you manage that; and who will watch your progress with an open mind & with genuine interest

Although one might think so on a Word Count basis, Mr Glort doesn't represent any sort of majority view here - just himself

Best of luck to you